Why is Firestorm the best 19th level control spell?

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While firestorm gives clerics a good control option, we have to ask, does it make the Cleric a better controller?

The answer is no since the Wizard has more control spells across the levels. Where the Cleric is pretending to be a controller once a day, the Wizard is the controller all the time. It's not like 3e where the Cleric now memorizes it with every spell slot he has and casts it all day.

Is it worth multi-classing to Cleric for a Wizard? Maybe, but I think Divine Oracle is more than enough reason to multi-class to Cleric for a Wizard already.

Is it overpowered compared to other spells of the level? Not significantly, Cloudkill and Evard's are worse, but Evard is better at keeping dudes occupied and Cloudkill is sweepable. It's not blade cascade.

So I would say that it's very good, but not broken.

If you want broken, look at Seal of Binding. Now that's power.
 

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Goumindong said:
Not sure I wouldn't rather have one of the more potent utilities as an encounter. Or Prismatic Spray. A big ol int vs will is nice. But an int vs will, fort, ref is better.

Yeah, prismatic spray is awesome ... but if I'm turning one daily into an encounter, I'm going to make it an opener.
At burst 20 with a stun effect, it's gonna add a distinct flavour to every encounter ..

Sure, I'm still going to prep prismatic spray. Can't have too much stun-locking fun.
 

DLichen said:
The answer is no since the Wizard has more control spells across the levels.
The Cleric only needs 4 encounters and 4 dailies to be equal to the number of control spells a wizard can put out. It doesn't matter that the wizard has more options as long as the cleric has enough options.
 

Personally, I like Cloudkill. It is the only one where the wizards can literally keep moving the enemy out of any area he doesn't want them in. This is very nice. Also, it simply does not miss as long as its around.
 

I think in my increasing list of house rules I'm just going to shift it across to the wizard list.

I was fed up with 3e clerics having more powerful spells than the wizard, I'm not going to let them start off in 4e with bigger, more effective and more tactically useful boom spells too. I don't think it is relevant whether or not the wizard has a wider range of inferior boom spells, if they can't ever match a clerics big boom spell.

In my campaigns Firestorm and Astral Storm are both moving over to the wizard list. I'll make up some new, thematically appropriate things for the clerics when I need to.
 

Yeah, Firestorm:Black Tentacles is debatable, but Astral Storm:Meteor Swarm is ludicrous. Especially when Astral Storm is easily expanded to burst 6 through the paragon increase-thunder-radius feat.
 

Yeah, Firestorm:Black Tentacles is debatable, but Astral Storm:Meteor Swarm is ludicrous. Especially when Astral Storm is easily expanded to burst 6 through the paragon increase-thunder-radius feat.

I don't understand the Astral Storm:Meteor Swarm thing, either. Astral Storm is better than Meteor Swarm in every conceivable way, which would be bad even if the Cleric and Wizard were both controllers. But the Cleric isn't supposed to be a controller...

Has anyone asked Customer Service about this? I wonder if this is simply a mistake, but it hasn't shown up in the errata yet.

-Chowder
 


Firestorm doesn't need to be moved. Plop it right on top of the party. Voila, the vast majority of creatures have to stand in it to have any hope of winning the encounter.
What keeps the enemies from fleeing around a corner and setting up an ambush while the PC's are waiting for them to come back to the zone of death?

Cloudkill prevents that by letting the wizard sweep the zone into the new combat site. Evard's prevents that by keeping the enemy from making a clean withdrawal.

Zurai said:
The Cleric only needs 4 encounters and 4 dailies to be equal to the number of control spells a wizard can put out. It doesn't matter that the wizard has more options as long as the cleric has enough options.
Okay, let's count. For purposes of this count, control functions consist of area damage, enemy-penalizing zones, single target major negative conditions(blinded, dominated, helpless, petrified, restrained, stunned, or unconcious), or multiple target negative conditions.

Cleric at-wills that perform control functions: 0.

Cleric encounters that perform control functions(by level):
1: Cause Fear, Divine Glow(2)
3: 0
7: Searing Light(1)
13: Mantle of Glory(1)
17: Blinding Light(1)
23: Healing Torch(1)
27: Sunburst(1)

Cleric daily powers that perform control functions(again, by level):
1: Beacon of Hope, Guardian of Faith(2)
5: Consecrated Ground, Rune of Peace, Spiritual Weapon(3)
9: Astral Defenders, Blade Barrier, Divine Power, Flame Strike(4)
15: Holy Spark, Purifying Fire, Seal of Warding(3)
19: Fire Storm, Holy Wrath, Knight of Glory(3)
25: Sacred Word, Seal of Binding, Seal of Protection(3)
29: Astral Storm(1)

Cleric paragon paths with both attack powers performing control functions:2(radiant servant, warpreist)

I admit, when I started this count, I didn't expect these results. It turns out a cleric can fully load up on control powers. In at least some situations, a cleric's daily control power will be more advantageous than a wizard power of equal level. Let's look at encounter powers, as they will be used more often than dailies, and clerics seem more limited there. Assume a top-level character has a 17, a 23, a 27, and a paragon path power.

Level 17: Blinding Light: If the cleric is wielding a two-handed weapon, he can beat out the damage of force volley to a single target, and blind it for one round. With level 17 spells, the wizard can do more damage to each of multiple targets, or more damage to a single target within 20 squares and remove it from combat for one round.

Level 23: Healing Torch: The wizard can create a smaller burst that does roughly the same initial damage, with the added effect of creating a zone of 10 automatic damage for one round. Alternately, he can stun a target within 20 squares or use Chain Lightning.

Level 27: Sunburst: The wizard can create an equally sized blast of significantly more damage, or take control of a foe for one round.

The trend in controller capability I'm seeing here is that while a cleric's daily powers can match or, under the right conditions, slightly exceed a wizard's daily powers, the wizard has the advantage when it comes to encounter powers. This says to me that a wizard is a better controller overall, but a cleric who really tries can come close. That doesn't seem too horrible if you consider a cleric to be a leader with controller options, like a fighter can be considered a defender with striker options.
 

You don't see fighter powers dealing 50% more damage than rogue powers.
Actually, you do. Compare Reign of Terror(fighter 25) with Ghost on the Wind(rogue 25). Both of them say 6[W] damage, but the fighter can use a two-handed weapon, while the rogue is restricted to light blades. Say the rogue has a 1d8 weapon and the fighter's using a 2d6 weapon. For the damage from the dice, we get:

Fighter:
Min: 12
Avg: 42
Max: 72

Rogue:
Min: 6
Avg: 27
Max: 48

Note that the rogue does half damage on a miss, while the fighter is guaranteed full damage eventually, as his power is reliable.
 

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