D&D 5E Why is Hoard of the Dragon Queen such a bad adventure?

[Flexor the Mighty!]

The plot was kind of stupid, the intro was a prime example of plot immunity, and the whole setup was poorly put together.

 

[Gradine]

I don't like how they statted up Tiamat, compare it to 2e and 3e she doesn't feel like a God.

Well a) I believe it's statted up as an Aspect of Tiamat, b) that would be in RoT, not HotDQ, and c) nearly the entire point of RoT is about making sure that if she does break free she's as weakened by the process as possible first.

 

[Eltab]

I have to say, for all of it's weaknesses, the book is still in print after four years.

So next year WotC can announce a 5-year Anniversary Edition with the editing mistakes fixed; and some sidebars - or an 'Upon Further Review' chapter - which address the problems (and suggestions) from these impromptu feedback threads !

 

[Jester David]

I did a lengthy review here: http://www.5mwd.com/archives/2890

Hoard or the Dragon Queen suffers for a few reasons. The encounters are funky as monster statblocks were still in flux during the writing. Very little is essential to the Tyranny of Dragons story, and you can almost skip it and jump right into Rise of Tiamat.
And it’s a MacGuffin hunt where you have to try and stop the villains getting all five dragon masks. Which they inevitably get no matter how hard the PCs hide any one they manage to get their hands on.

 

[Jester David]

Oops... didn’t see this was thread necro.

I also wonder if the old school adventure design and focus away from perfectly balanced combat encounters didn’t make people a little extra wary of this adventure.

 

[Gradine]

And it’s a MacGuffin hunt where you have to try and stop the villains getting all five dragon masks. Which they inevitably get no matter how hard the PCs hide any one they manage to get their hands on.

This is probably the biggest issue with the entire story-line, really (especially with RoT but it happens in HotDQ once or twice too). This idea that if the heroes succeed it blows up the plot too early. Let them succeed! Or don't design your plot in such a way that the PC's succeeding in their stated objectives doesn't blow it up!

Editing issues aside, I've always found HotDQ to be the superior of the two adventures, and this is a big part of it.

 

[ad_hoc]

Oops... didn’t see this was thread necro.

I also wonder if the old school adventure design and focus away from perfectly balanced combat encounters didn’t make people a little extra wary of this adventure.

I saw a lot of complaints along the lines of 'these encounters are impossibly hard/unbalanced'.

I found that most chapters involved all 3 pillars - exploration, social interaction, and combat. Exploration and Social Interaction needed to be engaged in to avoid or lessen combat. There is a castle in a swamp where there are 2 other factions. If the PCs can get those factions to fight each other and sneak through the castle they can get through just fine. If they try to fight all the 'baddies' then they will get trounced quite thoroughly.

 

[Parmandur]

This is probably the biggest issue with the entire story-line, really (especially with RoT but it happens in HotDQ once or twice too). This idea that if the heroes succeed it blows up the plot too early. Let them succeed! Or don't design your plot in such a way that the PC's succeeding in their stated objectives doesn't blow it up!

Editing issues aside, I've always found HotDQ to be the superior of the two adventures, and this is a big part of it.

The more sandbox approach of later books certainly make them more useful when the wheels come off: maybe the plot doesn't go remotely as expected, but that Stone Giant dungeon still came into play, and so on.

 

[Tallifer]

IThere is a castle in a swamp where there are 2 other factions. If the PCs can get those factions to fight each other and sneak through the castle they can get through just fine. If they try to fight all the 'baddies' then they will get trounced quite thoroughly.

I remember this sort of thing from some of the 4E WotC adventure paths. I particularly remember the adventure set in Menzobaranzan. The problem for our party was that we were basically lawful good on a crusade to save the world and the module expected us to ally with various evil folks against various other evil folks. Fortunately 4E gave our party enough power and skills and we had enough cleverness to just tactically manouevre and slaughter our way to success.

 

[ad_hoc]

I remember this sort of thing from some of the 4E WotC adventure paths. I particularly remember the adventure set in Menzobaranzan. The problem for our party was that we were basically lawful good on a crusade to save the world and the module expected us to ally with various evil folks against various other evil folks. Fortunately 4E gave our party enough power and skills and we had enough cleverness to just tactically manouevre and slaughter our way to success.

Basically there are kobolds and bullywugs in the castle. You don't have to ally with either of them, but you can sow discontent, particularly with the kobolds and encourage them to turn against the bullywugs.

Or you can just sneak through.

If you try to fight the entire castle you will be wiped out in short order, which I'm sure many groups tried to do. There is even a hydra they bring in.