Why is it a bad thing to optimise?

[Pilgrim]

So... what was the problem again?

That your statement was wrong and needed to be corrected.

 

[Umbran]

This is not to say that chargen should be done as groupthink and you get no control over your character. That's obviously taking things too far.

Obviously?

Later in the fall, I'm playing in a weekend-long live-action game. This is a game I paid to play, will have to drive for about 8 hours to reach, and pay for hotel, costuming, and props so this is no small investment for me.

I didn't make my own character. I didn't even choose my character. I filled out a questionnaire that gave the GMs a vague idea of what kinds of characters I might like to play, and they cast me with a character that is totally written by them - my stats, my basic personality, my basic goals for the weekend, all determined for me. This is true for all 60+ players in the game, and is not at all unusual for weekend-long theater style larps.

So, while I wouldn't say that this is how things should be for all players of all games. But it is not at all obvious that it shouldn't ever be, either.

 

[Kobold Boots]

Obviously?

Later in the fall, I'm playing in a weekend-long live-action game. This is a game I paid to play, will have to drive for about 8 hours to reach, and pay for hotel, costuming, and props so this is no small investment for me.

I didn't make my own character. I didn't even choose my character. I filled out a questionnaire that gave the GMs a vague idea of what kinds of characters I might like to play, and they cast me with a character that is totally written by them - my stats, my basic personality, my basic goals for the weekend, all determined for me. This is true for all 60+ players in the game, and is not at all unusual for weekend-long theater style larps.

So, while I wouldn't say that this is how things should be for all players of all games. But it is not at all obvious that it shouldn't ever be, either.

1. Kudos on being a larper and a reasonably hard core one from the description. Many of the things I do at the table were inspired by being a part of LARPs so I do get where you're coming from.

2. I think that within context both of your positions are defensible. I happen to agree with Hussar that at least in terms of those who have played D&D but are not used to other styles of rp, total DM control is taking things a bit far and may result in a degree of "WTF?"

3. (Cheap plug) if you're ever looking for a decent table group that's straddling LARP theory (without costumes of course) drop me a line.

KB

 

[Kzach]

Now this is something I do agree with. There is a tendency in many groups for people to treat their characters in a vacuum and not pay any attention to the group or the larger campaign. Particularly at chargen.

I think the reason I'm experiencing this problem so often is simply the fact that I play in a lot of Encounters, LFR games both online and at several game stores. In these situations there's little group coherence or discussion. People rock up with whatever they built last night or five minutes before sitting down to play.

If this was a regular, stable, long-term gaming group amongst peers, I highly doubt this would be a problem at all.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I think the reason I'm experiencing this problem so often is simply the fact that I play in a lot of Encounters, LFR games both online and at several game stores. In these situations there's little group coherence or discussion. People rock up with whatever they built last night or five minutes before sitting down to play.

If this was a regular, stable, long-term gaming group amongst peers, I highly doubt this would be a problem at all.

have you ever considered adapting to the game...come with 2 or 3 characters with diffrent levels of optimazation... then play the one that fits

 

[Kzach]

have you ever considered adapting to the game...come with 2 or 3 characters with diffrent levels of optimazation... Then play the one that fits

Nein!

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Obviously?

For a campaign? Yeah, probably.

For a one-off (such as you are describing)? Absolutely not.

Also, I *love* that style of LARP, though I haven't been able to do it since college.

 

[Pentius]

LMAO - 3 or 4 standards left? I'd love to DM for you sometime

Why is that laughable?

I'm making the following (reasonable, I think)assumptions:

1. The character in question is in a party of 4-5(in my experience, the average party size is actually 6-7, due to the 'more players than DMs' effect, but I'm going with 4-5 here)

2. The hypothetical combat in which this is happening is an on-level encounter(at level 2, the hypothetical thief's level).

3. It is built in a fairly generic way, ie, a number of standard enemies equal to the number of characters in the party, and of the same level.

Given those fairly base assumptions, the Thief can drop one or maybe if he's really lucky, two of those enemies. Thus, 3-4 enemies left. The encounter has become easier due to his use of resources, but will still take some beating. That sounds about right to me.

Do you LMAO because you put out encounters weaker than that? If so, they're probably getting mopped up quickly anyway, so I'm not sure where the LMAO comes in.

Do you LMAO because you put out encounters harder than that? If so, they're going to still be a challenge, even after the player blows his resources(and hard encounters basically invite the blowing of resources anyway).

I'm really just trying to figure out what you're getting at here.

As an aside, I'm active in PbP on these boards. If you ever do want to DM for me sometime, I'm game.

 

[Kzach]

edit; I was told to add brutal accuracy, and hunter advantage, but I dont have time to look them up...

Wanna start another thread in 4e forum and post the character builder text files so we can have a proper look?

 

[Andor]

This means that you're going to make your rolls the majority of the time, and by doing so, you avoid any opportunity for the DM/GM to spur a side venture where assistance from an NPC will be required, unless he has already planned out such directions for the game to take.

Besides, NPCs have been hitting up PCs for help since, well level one, so in the grand scheme of things, having an "optimized" character really means jack. If the GM needs to get the characters involved in something, they'll do so regardless of how optimized they are.

That your statement was wrong and needed to be corrected.

I'm guessing internal consistency is not really one of your goals.