Why is it so important?

[Merlion]

The rules should work around the players and DM, not the other way around.

 

[Merlion]

Um... then don't stop or allow the action to stop. If the wizard uses up all his spells in the first combat then it sucks to be him. Next time he shouldn't be so foolish.

Low level wizards have no choice. If you only have 3 or 4 spell slots, they are going to go quick. And thats what the designers are apparently shooting for...giving a wizard magic-related resources apart from just fire and forget spells.

I've seen all your going on about crossbows and melee but the point is you should be able to play your class in its role throughout the "adventuring day", rather than having to either stop and rest, or resort to basically not acting as a wizard anymore.

What you prespose is most likely to only lead to frustration of the wizard player. And the usual stop and rest every few minutes leads to the other players resenting those playing spellcasters.

Melee(or more sensibly a crossbow) is a wizard's crutch. It's something he should only be using when he's got a broken leg. There's something wrong with a system that regularly breaks a wizards legs and calls it part of the fun.

Exactly.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

I am curious as to why people like the idea of having "per encounter" abilities and such.

There are a few reasons.

1) Given the way the game is frequently played at this point, most per day abilities may as well be per encounter abilities.

1a) While I know that a DM can change this easily by running more fights in one day, combats take pretty long at the moment. While busting out the dice to run a fight between a 1st level party and 2 dire rats is CR appropriate, it is also not very interesting. If I am going to run a fight, I want it to be tactically interesting.

2) It becomes easier to balance combat encounters in a non railroaded game. You do not have to worry quite as much about an encounter being too difficult if the player has used all his 3rd level spells, but too easy if he has not used any of them. This in turn means it no longer matters if the players do combat X before combat Y.

3) As a player, you get to do your cool things more often rather than worrying about holding back for later.

4) As a DM, you no longer need to worry quite so much about whether or not a caster type going 'nova' and blasting out every high end spell he has, or if he is going to pace himself.

5) It helps verisimilitude if you do not have to have the players go to bed after every other fight to recover their abilities.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Aus_Snow]

Hm.

So, how many people were clamouring for a mage to be able to do more all the time, *before* the relevant details of 4e were released? Or has 4e suddenly shown just about everyone (or perhaps, nearly everyone who is "vocal" in this forum, for example) something they didn't realise about the horrors of playing a mage in 3e, 2e, 1e, BECMI, B/X and OD&D (and the rest). . .?

Other than those people involved directly or otherwise in the development and/or marketing of 4e at any stage, I mean. Of course, they might be slightly biased, and understandably so: it's their baby. Well, -to-be, anyway. That's cool.

But as far as just gamers/fans/readers/whatever go, was this even a "problem" prior to the "solution" that is being touted as such?


Because yeah, it seems to me that a *lot* of people on- and offline play wizards, and hey, some even play sorcerers! And, furthermore, it seems that many such gamers love playing these classes. As is, in 3e. As *was*, in 3e, even. Like, core f'rex. So. . .

Yeah, I just don't see the "issue" in the first place. Not IRL.

 

[hong]

Just because people develop coping behaviours (purposefully holding back with spells, resting after one fight, etc) doesn't mean they want to continue with those behaviours....

 

[Aus_Snow]

Just because people develop coping behaviours (purposefully holding back with spells, resting after one fight, etc) doesn't mean they want to continue with those behaviours....

Like say, coping with the near-unbearable harshness of having to decide when to utilise the most powerful force in the entire game system, with even psionics possibly included? (but certainly in core and just about anywhere else. . .)

Oh, the humanity!

 

[hong]

"FEAR the wielder of the most POWERFUL FORCE in the ENTIRE GAME SYSTEM!"

"D00d, you can use bat guano, we get it already."

 

[Aus_Snow]

I never said they weren't totally batsh-nevermind crazy.

I think.

 

[Wolfwood2]

Hm.

So, how many people were clamouring for a mage to be able to do more all the time, *before* the relevant details of 4e were released? Or has 4e suddenly shown just about everyone (or perhaps, nearly everyone who is "vocal" in this forum, for example) something they didn't realise about the horrors of playing a mage in 3e, 2e, 1e, BECMI, B/X and OD&D (and the rest). . .?

They were all over.

Just as an example, look at how the Warlock is possibly the most popular of the non-core classes in 3.5. It's not because the Warlock is so incredibly powerful. It's because lots and lots of people really love the idea of being able to "do something magic every round" and they are willing to play a weaker character just for the chance to do that.

Look at the popularity of "Reserve Feats". Again, not that powerful, but lots of folks were taking them just for the sweetness of magic every round.

Don't mistake the fact that most people had resigned themselves to D&D being D&D for the desire not being there. It just didn't get talked up a lot, because without more house-ruling than most people want to do there was no point.

 

[drothgery]

Hm.

So, how many people were clamouring for a mage to be able to do more all the time, *before* the relevant details of 4e were released? Or has 4e suddenly shown just about everyone (or perhaps, nearly everyone who is "vocal" in this forum, for example) something they didn't realise about the horrors of playing a mage in 3e, 2e, 1e, BECMI, B/X and OD&D (and the rest). . .?

Well, more than once I've had PCs recommend that the party call it a day after one or two combat scenes because they're out of spells (or out of high-level spells). That hasn't happened much to my current warmage, because the cleric usually runs out of spells first (because while my warmage is just blasting, he's trying to blast, summon stuff, cast buffs, and heal -- and he's got fewer spell slots), but it has happened to a lot of other characters. And that's kind of lame.