Why is the WoW influence a bad thing?

[irdeggman]

What I find happening with D&D since the the surge in MMORPGs is the trend in players "looking to get stuff".

What I mean is that it appears to be be a frequent issue that people are looking for "drops" and trying to acquire "goodies" much more than they did in 2nd ed.

The gp per level issue is, IMO, a direct reflection of this type of paradiem.

I get the impression that people who have grown up playing table top D&D have a different mindset than those that have grown up playing the MMORPGs (WoW being the prime example currently).

It used to be that people played RPGs to "be someone different" and to "role-play" that way. This is much harder to do with the on-line (and stand alone) computer based games. Peopel can only "type so fast" and facial expressions and body language gets "lost" in the process.

I don't "fear" the game mechanics that appear to be happening with 4th ed (they look intriguing at the worst, inviting at the best) I just hope that people can get back to theme/concept based character generation and role-playing and away from "maximizing builds".

There are advantages and disadvantages to each and neither is, IMO, decidedly "better" than the other - they serve different goals. Those "differences" is what should, IMO, be emphasized - not their similiarities.

 

[Rakin]

- Infinite content
- Extremely varied content (every Onyxia fight is the same, every D&D dragon fight is a whole new ballgame)
- Better flexibility/handling on non-combat encounters
- Opportunity to actually change the world, to have actions make a noticeable difference in future (non-combat) gameplay.
- Positional combat (most MMOs shy away from collision dection because of the computational difficulty and lag).
- Imagination based

Sweet are there notes on how 4E is working to improve these?

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Fine, and I should be able to ignore it. If the big bad playground bully challenges me, and I know I'll get my ass kicked, there should be no reason I can't decline his challenge - And then hit him in the back of the head with a Robert Jordon novel.

If you make your save, sure.

I particularly like the idea of social skills being actively used, and PCs no longer being immune.

Brad

 

[Rechan]

What I find happening with D&D since the the surge in MMORPGs is the trend in players "looking to get stuff".

I didn't know Monty Haul games were created after MMOs.

 

[Vradna]

Whoa. Hold on a sec, chief. Is their any hard evidence to indicate that that WoW has hurt D&D sales in any way? Or MMO's taking a bite out of the PnPrpg market? This just seems like a misinformed opinion. I could be wrong on this.

Other than the two features I highlighted, it is the impression that I get.

If the system is so irrelevant, that why has Palladium been having such a rough time making sales for the past few years? Could part of it be that they have just not updated/upgraded the system?

I wasn't meaning to be generalsitic in my statement: I was referring to my group. Lately we have been playing OSRIC because some of us like Half Orc Cleric/Assassins, despite the level restrictions. Haven't played Palladium in a while, maybe I should get it out.

Apologies, my post was borne out of everyone obsessing over this new 4th Edition rules and the comparisons it draws (me included). This thing is not going to be out for a fair few months and at the moment it seems that EnWorld is not covering much else and people aren't talking about much else either. I am a little tired of it, so I might take a break from this site and get back to my gaming table.

 

[irdeggman]

I didn't know Monty Haul games were created after MMOs.

There is a difference IMO.

In my plane of reference, Monty Haul games referred to DMs who gave out inordinate amounts of treasure.

What I was referring to was the "expectation" of receiving said treasure by the players which is becoming reflected in the actual game rules (see reference to gp per level tables).

 

[hong]

Why have a mechanic for this?

Why have a mechanic for anything?

Because it's fun to roll dice, and it appeases our inner gearhead.

 

[Rechan]

What I was referring to was the "expectation" of receiving said treasure by the players which is becoming reflected in the actual game rules (see reference to gp per level tables).

Odd. I thought that PCs always expected treasure. I don't know where you're getting this sudden cropping.

Hell, I thought that was the point of adventuring. Go dungeoncrawling to get loot.

 

[hong]

Odd. I thought that PCs always expected treasure. I don't know where you're getting this sudden cropping.

Hell, I thought that was the point of adventuring. Go dungeoncrawling to get loot.

Well, treasure has always been a part of the D&D experience. But prior to 3E, you couldn't really do that much with it. Sure, you could have characters with six +2 swords and other trinkets, but after a while it just became baggage.

3E made it so that all items are significant. By that, I don't necessarily mean the rules mandate it; but the overall zeitgeist changed so that items became a major component of game balance and the concept of "level-appropriate equipment" gained currency.

I wouldn't mind a bit of dialling back of that zeitgeist. Bling is always going to be a part of D&D, but the game could be more flexible in how it's handled. Which, I guess, is something the designers are already trying to do, what with the statement that the Christmas-tree effect is going away.

 

[king_ghidorah]

Odd. I thought that PCs always expected treasure. I don't know where you're getting this sudden cropping.

Hell, I thought that was the point of adventuring. Go dungeoncrawling to get loot.

When I stopped playing AD&D in the 80s as a snobby college kid, one thing all of us ex-AD&D players complained about was that the game was all about killing and looting, and that was the expectation built into the rules (after all, XP in AD&D did include as a major component the gold value of treasure found and monsters included treasure types as a defining factor....)

I don't know how this can be seen as a new phenomenon, or how (based on the basic assumptions of the dungeon-delving format that goes back to the early days) anyone thinks that video games brought "video gamey" play to D&D rather than seeing the clear emulation of a particular style of play that goes back to days before modern graphical user interfaces.