Why is the WoW influence a bad thing?

[STARP_Social_Officer]

Or so the theory goes. I dunno. It's what my friend heard from some guy's girlfriend or something.

Well, I'm convinced...

But seriously, I wasn''t implying that they'd try and make D&D exactly like WoW - if anybody got that impression I obviously needed to tweak my words. But WoW is very popular, popular means profitable, Wizards and Hasbro are corporations and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they'll try to capitalise on the online gaming market. I think that's a shame, is all.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I've never played WoW. I don't know anyone IRL who has played it.

So the thing for me is kind of the other way round. IOW, 4e has turned me off even looking at WoW.

OK, not that I was likely to anyway.

 

[GAAAHHH]

I really hope that WotC can bring in some of those WoW players into D&D. There are a lot of gamers in WoW, and maybe some of them will find their way to other games too; this would be good for the hobby.

It's just that I don't like World of Warcraft. If it is too similar, I won't be playing the game. It's not like D&D is the only game I play, but it would be a shame if they left me behind.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Pf, I think it's smart and just and right.

Nobody is going to take away your ability to play D&D the way you want to play D&D. If you and your group likes playing Pretty Pretty Princess and having long tea parties during your D&D game where you play Theatre Major at one another for hours ... I love it! Huzzah!

If your group wants to Kill Monsters, Take Stuff, Power Up! and people fall asleep if you're out of initiative for more than three minutes. I love it! Huzzah!

You can do both in WoW, really. My wife was in a guild that literally sat around having meetings and making stories and playing "in character" for hours at a time. They would all log in and march at walk speed for a half hour from Point A to Point B just to be seen by the rest of the playing population. And I know some guilds that will kick you out of the guild if you don't have The Right Gear and/or you don't Kill Enough Monsters.

D&D and WoW are very different games. But WoW makes a bazillion dollars a year and D&D ... doesn't.

I know how I like to play my RPGs. I can see from the previews that if they're taking anything from MMORPGs it is not the playerbase, it is elements that can improve the RPG fun. Now, if they draw to the MMORPG playerbase by doing so ... great! They can play their way and I can play my way ...

And, having had experience with watching people move from WoW to tabletop RPGs ... the tabletop RPGs, when they're presented by an engaging and knowledgeable group and there is convenience to play them ... usually win out. And in a traditional RPG mode. It's a fun past-time, it just has a hard time picking up more players and escaping from some of the less-savory impressions people have of it.

--fje

 

[Rechan]

I'm still curious as to how D&D would become WoW. I mean... can someone give some examples of what would make D&D WoW?

 

[Henry]

I've been running around in World of Warcraft for about two months now, and I do like the game; however, it is a very different play experience from D&D, mostly because no matter what you do, it tends to go right back to the "grind" nature of most such games; you work various "fetch" quests and kill monsters to gain XP, so that you can handle more rewarding quests and monsters, so than you can handle even bigger monsters. Yes, one can roleplay in it, but the number of people trying to do so are needles in the World of Warcraft haystack. D&D, by its nature, has a "grind," but it takes far fewer iterations to get where you want to go, and the DM and players can set the exact amount of role-play that they want in between.

The main reason I don't want to see D&D migrate in a WoW direction is not because of "videogameyness" or any such phrase, but because I like its game system as-is, warts and all, and one of those warts is the resource management elements being phased out with the "per encounter" system. As time goes on, those elements will get fewer and fewer, and the emphasis will likely be placed on "how fast in game time you can get back to fighting."

With per-encounter, many such old classics as the time-sensitive adventure, or things such as Gary's old Slavelords dungeons will become VERY hard to pull off. There's no need to be careful in combat if every combat you're entering at near-full strength; If the island is blowing in one hour and you're stuck in its bowels, there's no reason why NOT to stop for that one or five minutes and regain all power.

If 4E does a good job of mitigating my fears on this area, I'll be leading the pack in the buying binge; I still DO like the idea of a character slowly regaining their resources over time, but for me under an hour is way too fast for my tastes. If it doesn't mitigate my fears, then it won't be my game of choice, and 3E and other systems will be.

 

[Cadfan]

Even if D&D copied the gameplay mechanics of WoW precisely to the letter, it still wouldn't feel the same.

Playing a game around a table is fundamentally different from playing a game on the internet. WoW, as a game, is a mix of level grinding and timing subgames (fighting a monster is mostly about clicking the right buttons in the right order at the right moment). Even if you took the mechanics and put them in D&D, there would be no grinding and no timing subgame.

 

[Morrus]

I just don't get why it would be a bad thing for 4e to take on some of the good/fun aspects of WoW.

Some people don't like WoW. So making their favourite RPG more like something they don't like qualifies as bad.

Other people do like WoW. So making their favourite RPG more like something they like qualifies as good.

Different people simply like different things.

I don't think there's a significant fear that D&D will end up like WoW, specifically, though. The more general feeeling is that it will be more "videogamey" in feel. Which is fine for a video game, but not what many want from their tabletop RPG experience.

I don't thikn that's happening. 4E may be hinted at being more streamlined, but I'm personally getting a sense that it'll be a bit LESS videogamey than 3E.

 

[Cadfan]

With per-encounter, many such old classics as the time-sensitive adventure, or things such as Gary's old Slavelords dungeons will become VERY hard to pull off. There's no need to be careful in combat if every combat you're entering at near-full strength; If the island is blowing in one hour and you're stuck in its bowels, there's no reason why NOT to stop for that one or five minutes and regain all power.

I think this is unlikely. There's plenty of reason to be careful in combat even if you're entering at full strength. First, the combats could be tougher. Second, the character's can be less powerful. Don't react with immediate negativity to that- spellcasters with all their spells and with no worries about saving them are awesomely powerful right now, and if they're going to get their spells back faster, I expect they'll be nerfed in other ways.

I'd rather have 4 meaningful fights in a day instead of 3 fights I know I can win and where the only real tension is whether I'm going to have to use my spell of uberness, or whether I can save it for fight number 4.

As for whether there's a reason to stop for one to five minutes to regain power, I can see why you'd be more likely to do this than you would be to sleep 8 hours, but I don't see how that removes dramatic tension.

 

[hong]

With per-encounter, many such old classics as the time-sensitive adventure, or things such as Gary's old Slavelords dungeons will become VERY hard to pull off. There's no need to be careful in combat if every combat you're entering at near-full strength; If the island is blowing in one hour and you're stuck in its bowels, there's no reason why NOT to stop for that one or five minutes and regain all power.

Whyfor you continue to parrot this line, Henry?

Time-sensitive adventures become EASIER to pull off with per-encounter balancing, because the designer/DM no longer needs to worry about the party running out of steam prematurely. They can just insert encounters as deemed suitable for the timetable or setting, without having to deal with artificial game-design issues like not overwhelming the group too early. Evidence: every FPS with a map that has a counter ticking. The concept of a "per day resource" is completely alien to FPSes, but that doesn't stop people making maps with timers.