Why is there no Gen-Con East, anyhow?

[MDSnowman]

It's a lot more practical to drive to Indy from the northeast or the south than it is from the West, so I'd think that if they're only adding one new show, it should be in the region where it's hardest to get to the old one.

Spoken like someone who actually has the money for 8.5 hours worth of gas. As for price do you think it's not cost prohibitive to have to pay $500 for a hotel room? (Please ignore the preceeding sentance because I have a beef about hotel rooms in general being obscenely over priced). I'd honestly welcome a Gen Con less than six hours from me...

 

[drothgery]

Spoken like someone who actually has the money for 8.5 hours worth of gas. As for price do you think it's not cost prohibitive to have to pay $500 for a hotel room? (Please ignore the preceeding sentance because I have a beef about hotel rooms in general being obscenely over priced). I'd honestly welcome a Gen Con less than six hours from me...

It's more like I'm speaking as someone who lives on the west coast.

I didn't say that it was cheap or practical to drive to Indy from much of the South or the Northeast, just that it was much cheaper and more practical than driving to Indy from the West.

 

[The Sigil]

Yes, it's coming from a So-Cal guy, but seriously, look again at the logistics and the potential pitfalls of various venues, and I think it's pretty clear why So-Cal was chosen.

Why do you have a second GenCon? To serve those who can't make the first GenCon.

When do you have the second GenCon? In Novemberish... March is the GAMA show, June is Origins, August is the original GenCon, so to "space it out" correctly, you're looking at Novemberish.

Because you have it in November, you consider climates of your possible destinations. Because you have it to serve those who can't make the original, you look at the people who would have the hardest time getting to the original and locate it nearer to them.

Who's underserved by GenCon Indy? The West Coast... by a HUGE degree (see below). Moving the "second GenCon" anywhere else than the southern, west-coast-ish area of the US (including Nevada, Arizona, and other West-to-Midwest states that are warm in the winter etc.) does a much less satisfactory job of following the logic implicit in the above reasons. When you have it narrowed down to that area, IMO, you are left with two obvious choices that provide the extra "fringe benefit" of attractions for the whole family... Anaheim/Disneyland and Las Vegas/The Strip. It then becomes a coin flip, but since Disneyland is more tightly packed than the Strip (having walked both many times, I know which one tires you out more and it's not Disneyland), that "Fringe Benefit" seems to me to make the ideal choice of location SoCal - and Anaheim specifically.

While I agree with Henry that the Indy location is a good one for many people, at the same time I think it would be nice to have one on the East Coast.

I hear a lot of, "well, it would be convenient for me since I'm on the East Coast" on this thread... of course it would... but consider the following... I have tried to think of as many "major urban centers" representative of areas throughout the US as I can... and I'm sure I missed some, but you'll see where I'm going in a minute... let us assume that an "easy" day's drive consists of 8 hours of driving, though you can probably push yourself to do a marathon drive of 15 hours (6 am to 9 pm) in a single day if you have to:

MAJOR URBAN CENTERS EASILY WITHIN A SINGLE DAY'S DRIVE OF INDY:
Chicago to Indy = 3 hours, 8 minutes
Detroit to Indy = 5 hours, 5 minutes
Pittsburgh to Indy = 5 hours, 39 minutes
Atlanta to Indy = 8 hours, 40 minutes

MAJOR URBAN CENTERS WHERE THE DRIVE CAN BE MADE IN A DAY IF YOU PUSH IT:
New York to Indy = 11 hours, 14 minutes
New Orleans to Indy = 12 hours, 56 minutes
Dallas to Indy = 13 hours, 46 minutes
Providence to Indy = 14 hours, 7 minutes
Boston to Indy = 14 hours, 27 minutes

MAJOR URBAN CENTERS WHERE THE DRIVE TO INDY WILL TAKE AT LEAST TWO DAYS, INCLUDING ONE "EASY" DAY:
Denver to Indy = 16 hours, 22 minutes
Augusta (Maine) to Indy = 16 hours, 52 minutes
Miami to Indy = 19 hours, 27 minutes
Salt Lake City to Indy = 22 hours, 54 minutes

MAJOR URBAN CENTERS WHERE THE DRIVE TO INDY WOULD TAKE TWO BACK-TO-BACK MARATHON DAYS AND IS PROBABLY MORE SAFELY ACCOMPLISHED IN THREE:
Phoenix to Indy = 26 hours, 26 minutes
Las Vegas to Indy = 28 hours, 4 minutes

MAJOR URBAN CENTERS WHERE THE DRIVE TO INDY TAKES AT LEAST THREE DAYS:
Los Angeles to Indy = 31 hours, 6 minutes
Portland to Indy = 33 hours, 35 minutes
Seattle to Indy = 33 hours, 45 minutes
San Francisco to Indy = 34 hours, 4 minutes

Put yourself in a West Coaster's shoes. Consider that for me as someone in So-Cal to go to GenCon, not only do I have to take off, say three days for the Con, I also have to take off SIX MORE DAYS just to drive there and back (yes, I could fly in, but that argument can be made for a con anywhere in the country - the East Coast crowd could fly into GenCon SoCal just as easily, so let's eliminate that as a counter-argument)! If you think having to drive a single day is bad, imagine having to drive three or four days! That's what we face out here. Look at those distances and you tell me which markets aren't being well-served by GenCon Indy. It's the Midwest and West Coast (not that So-Cal is ideal for the Midwest or even other areas of the West Coast, but it cuts the drive down to a long day or two).

My own opinion is that they ought to look at rotating the location of the SoCal GenCon. Keep the original in the Midwest, but then move the second GenCon each year. SoCal this year, Northeast next, Northwest after that, Southeast in 2007 etc. It would bring the exposure of a big convention to different places while keeping the original intact and not overly stressing the vendors, the planners and attendees.

Again, why and when do you have a second show? You have it to hit those people who have an undue burden on them to make the original, and you probably don't want to have it in a place that could be snowbound during the 'Con, which really leaves just places that are in hotter climates...

Now, again, look at the "underserved" market by GenCon Indy. An argument could be made to move it to the Northwest since they're underserved... but they're in a snowbound area. That leaves... places like So-Cal and Las Vegas and Phoenix. And if you're going to keep it in the southern West Coast area, you may as well just leave it in a single venue. Las Vegas might have been a little more central, but So-Cal, right across the street from Disneyland, isn't exactly a poor choice, either.

East Coast costs can be an issue (especially New York), but they can be mitigated by moving to slightly less popular locations. Boston has its new convention center and it has a lot of unbooked time right now (good for negotiating a better price) because lots of cities are building or have recently built convention space - more space than there are conventions.

Again... snow. Again... the East Coast is already within a day's drive of GenCon Indy. If you want to arrive early or stay late, what's to see in the area around the convention center in Boston? Is it as good as Disneyland?

Besides, the Number One reason to have a Gen-Con So-Cal is that you can convince the wife to come along to GenCon So-Cal... you spend a day or two at the show and the family gets to go to Disneyland... they think it's a Disneyland vacation, but of course you know better.

--The Sigil

 

[The Sigil]

Spoken like someone who actually has the money for 8.5 hours worth of gas. As for price do you think it's not cost prohibitive to have to pay $500 for a hotel room? (Please ignore the preceeding sentance because I have a beef about hotel rooms in general being obscenely over priced). I'd honestly welcome a Gen Con less than six hours from me...

Spoken like someone who doesn't realize that the West Coast is four times as far away from Indy as he is... do you think we West Coasters have the money to pay for 30+ hours worth of gas (not to mention the time it takes to make a trip of three to four days *each way* really eats into vacation time in a hurry) or that the rooms are any cheaper for us?

Oh, and by the way, have you considered that if they DID have an East Coast GenCon venue, you'd be making that trek in the snow (due to it being late November)? Is a six-hour drive in the snow that much more attractive than an 8 to 11 hour drive in the summer?

Imagine, if you would, that there was ONLY GenCon SoCal and no GenCon Indy, and suddenly there was an announcement made that there was a GenCon Indy. You'd be overjoyed, wouldn't you? Now you know how we felt with the advent of GenCon SoCal. Don't feel "left out" or that we're getting "special treatment" - we're the blokes that were "left out" of the original.

I hate to be rude, but a lot of the grumbling I'm hearing from the East Coast makes me sick... "well, it's somewhat inconvenient for me, it should be changed... who cares if it's almost impossibly difficult for West Coast folks?" And then they wonder why West Coasters tend to think of East Coasters as self-centered and unable to see things from our point of view...

--The Sigil

 

[dsfriii]

Sad...

It is sad that it has become a East Coast-West Coast thing.....

Heck you know what I would like to see is maybe a GenCon-DragonCon combo.

 

[BrooklynKnight]

I'd do my best to make it all 3.

Last year I asked Peter about the possibilty for an East Coast/NY Gencon.

He explained to me the major reason for no Con of that sort was COST, and at that time he was concentrating on getting SoCal on its feet. He did say that after 05/06 at a point where SOCAL is Established, he MIGHT try East Coast (prolly NYC but who knows...)

Speaking as a NYC'er and the economic situation here....I'd say its very EASY to hold a convention here. Especially in times square.
Cost is an issue, but if the convention works with the local government (IE City Hall) they'll get tons of perks and discounts because the city WANTS to attract tons of buisness and conventions to help the economy to recover.
Some hotels in Times Square and the area run 80$ a night, fairly cheep (granted it would be more expesive during a con).

If there can be a Herc/Xena convention in Times Square, and a profitable one at that, then there can DEFINATLY be a GEncon Convention in NYC and it would be profitable too.

 

[dravot]

Tangential to the conversation, I just came across this story:

ComicCon causes hotel room rates to skyrocket:

 

[Dogbrain]

As for price do you think it's not cost prohibitive to have to pay $500 for a hotel room? (Please ignore the preceeding sentance because I have a beef about hotel rooms in general being obscenely over priced). I'd honestly welcome a Gen Con less than six hours from me...

That's still cheaper than the extortionate rates charged on the coasts.

 

[Dogbrain]

I once told someone that I was having a meeting in Chicago because I wanted a location in the midwest. They (quite correctly) replied with a snort that Chicago was only in the midwest if you lived on the East Coast.

That person was utterly ignorant. I was born and raised in Indiana and live here now. We are in the Midwest and have always been in the Midwest. Only the monumentally ignorant would deny that Chicago is in the Midwest. The Midwest has always contained the states that at one time were in the Northwest Territory (Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota). This is how the term has been used for over a century.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Excellent arguements Sigil and I have to agree with most of your reasoning. One thing I'll take issue with is your consideration of weather. Unless you are in the snowbelt along the Great Lakes, it is honestly unusual to have significant snowfall in late November in the Northeast. Yes it is cold, and raw and overall not the most pleasant climate, but I would not consider snow to be a major issue.

My consideration of a second rotating location for GenCon was not whining about how far it is to drive, it was more a matter of spreading the exposure a convention brings, and making it easy for those who do not want to venture far from home for a major convention. I really cannot afford to even take off a couple of extra days to drive to Indy and back, plus the time for the convention itself. By rotating it, every so many years a GenCon might come close enough that people like myself who would not normally travel much distance to attend one might be able to make one.

And as for East-coasters being "self-centered" its not really that we are self-centered, it is more a matter of perspective. Here in New England, and in general along much of the East Coast, things are so close together many are just are not used to the larger scale of the western part of the country. Those who have not experienced it have trouble comprehending it. I had no concept of it whatsover until I drove from New Hampshire to New Mexico one summer.

[From the other perspective two people I knew from Utah came to vacation in New York and New England. One day they were going to drive from Vermont, across New Hampshire, over to Maine. They looked at a map and thought "This will take all day!" not realizing the scale of the map was so much smaller. Two hours later they see "Welcome to Maine." They were shocked at how small the states are.]