Why is there no talk about the Castle Keepers Guide preview?

[catsclaw227]

PS: I don't think many have room to mock it's grammar. WotC, Paizo, Mongoose, FFG, or any other RPG publisher definately do not have perfect prose by any shot, most are typically mocked by their detractors. You can tell I'm no giant of prose either. I do not find the prose distracting, and that's all that counts. I have found plenty of RPG's that have distracting enough grammar to detract from my ability to understand the meaning and/or intent of the rules. I can understand a dislike or mocking of those. I don't have that problem with the CKG (or most of the rest of Trolllord games publications for that matter). I understand that some have this problem however. They are blessed to never have to look at some of the stuff I've looked at I assume (and as they say, by assuming you make an...well you know...of yourself/myself).

I don't think anyone has mocked their writing, rather, like myself, they've only stated that they don't care for it.

And I have read some terrible RPG (and novel) stuff. FATAL wasn't even English, it was more like some twisted reverse, double negative, Englush. (and reprehensible, insulting, sexist and foul.)

Some of the D&D novels over the years have been awful too, like someone writing a bad story hour of their game sessions.

 

[the Jester]

PS: I don't think many have room to mock it's grammar. WotC, Paizo, Mongoose, FFG, or any other RPG publisher definately do not have perfect prose by any shot, most are typically mocked by their detractors.

Without caring about the content, I read some of the prose and it was awful. Don't have room to mock their grammar? Are you kidding?? Keefe picked some low-hanging fruit, but there's plenty more.

If they're gonna charge $32 for a pdf, they really ought to hire a good editor to clean up the mess first. The pseudoGygaxian style fails, repeating the same words two or three times a sentence just to fluff up word count. Gygax's prose, while often stilted, communicated information. These just tells you that the optional rules include rules that are optional, which some players and GMs might like because they like to have options.

 

[the Jester]

I don't think anyone has mocked their writing...

Guilty as charged.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Given that the text is readable -- and, honestly, isn't significantly worse than a lot of game writing out there* -- I'm bemused by the complaints. Isn't the value of a rulebook its utility, more than as a work of art? I thought the "books should primarily exist as something for me to read and argue about" thing died out with the oWoD.

In any case, I'm buying this once it's in hardcover. I'm really looking forward to swapping in C&C as the basic engine of my campaign, instead of the 3.5 rulebooks. (I'll be keeping some supplements and monster books, since C&C plays so nicely with them.)

* Most game book writing is awful and even the best of it is pretty unremarkable compared to the wider world of writing. The notion that the Troll Lords are somehow big offenders in this regard feels kind of bogus to me.

 

[Treebore]

I haven't commented in this because I have yet to get the Hard cover, besides I am not a fan of "reviews". They are too often done by people who read, and far from throughly, and probably never even play the system in question, unless it is their main system to begin with.

So I even quit writing reviews myself because I found the best way to reliably find out if a game or supplement is any good is to buy it myself and check it out and play it a few times.

If I listened to reviewers I would think 4E D&D is either awesome or a total piece of crap, I would think C&C is a piece of crap rather than being the best D&D type RPG I have ever played, I would think L5R sucks, I would think Aces and Eights sucks, and so on.

So I don't like "reviews" or "reviewers" and I am very hesitant of ever writing up a true review ever again. All I plan on ever giving again is a brief opinion, like I recently did about the 4E monster Vault tokens.

So my advice is, rather than listen to my review, or anyone elses's, is read the freebies available for yourself, try it out for yourself, and decide for yourself. You may like, you may love it, you may hate it, but I can't tell you which it will be, only you can.

 

[DaveMage]

$32 for the PDF? Wow, is that expensive!

Well, Paizo's core rulebook PDF is 576 pages for $10, so this book, at $32 must have over 1,500 pages!

 

[Treebore]

Well, Paizo's core rulebook PDF is 576 pages for $10, so this book, at $32 must have over 1,500 pages!

To expect companies to all do the same is ridiculous, let alone unfair. For one thing Paizo has far greater sales, and runs their own website PDF store, so can afford to sell at such prices. Troll Lords would be fools to try and do the same.

Now the complaint I agree with is that TLG has this priced higher than the perfect bound and digest print versions costs, and if you go to the TLG boards you will see a thread here I tell them I think this is bogus.

Steve then tells me how he priced it this way because they will be giving free updates to this PDF in the future, so is value added. I then pointed out to Steve that it is not value added, just the Trolls finally catching up to the modern PDF age, because I have been getting free PDF updates for years from every other company out there.

I haven't gotten any follow up from Steve as of yet, and I suspect that is due to it being the weekend, and therefore family time for Steve. So hopefully he will post something Tuesday, since Monday is a holiday.

 

[Crothian]

So hopefully he will post something Tuesday, since Monday is a holiday.

If he's working for a bank, library, school, or government then I wouldn't expect a response. But I don't know many other businesses that take off for the Holiday. I know I'll be in the office all day tomorrow.

It is silly to compare this to Pathfinder core. Heck, even if we compare other Paizo PDFs to their Pathfinder RPG PDF it looks like they are seriously out of control price wise. I and many others complained loudly when some companies had PDFs equal to the print books in cost, but this might be the first time I've heard of someone having the PDF cost more.

 

[DaveMage]

Here's what I would be willing to pay for a PDF of a typical RPG product:

B/W
0-130 pages: Up to $6.99
131-300 pages: Up to $9.99
301+ pages: Up to $19.99

Color
0-130 pages: Up to 9.99
131-300 pages: Up to 14.99
301+ pages: Up to $19.99

The only way I'd be willing to pay more than $19.99 for a PDF is if the product is something truly special (say, Castle Whiterock, Wilderlands Box Set, or Ptolus), in which case, I might go as high as $29.99.

 

[Treebore]

My rule of thumb is the more it gets below 50% of its print cost the more likely I am to buy it.


Also remember that Steve usually has two really good, compared to his own "normal" sales, heavily discounted sales per year. Those are the sales I will be waiting for in order to get this PDF at a price I am willing to pay.

Until then the HC versions will be just fine. Who knows? I may not even end up liking this enough to even want a PDF copy.