Why is/was Shadowrun more popular than Cyberpunk?

[Clint_L]

I postulate that fantasy tends to be much easier to use than sci-fi as a basis for campaign-oriented TTRPGs. Good sci-fi is very ideas driven and often challenges existing paradigms and stereotypes, while fantasy tends to reinforce existing paradigms and stereotypes. So by fusing fantasy and science fiction Shadowrun allows for many of the trappings of cyberpunk within the comforting framework of fantasy.

On a personal level, I enjoy fantasy TTRPGs much more than I enjoy reading most fantasy literature, and the reverse is true for science fiction.

 

[Staffan]

I'm not very familiar with the Cyberpunk RPG (I remember playing it a little back in the 90s, but not very much), but I wonder if the GM support could have something to do with it? At least recent editions of Shadowrun have had some neat "Here's a basic adventure structure, just fill in the blanks" guidelines which can help keep things moving, and the basic concept of the Shadowrun and Shadowrunners as a specific subculture provides an easy if basic campaign structure. It's a bit like a TV procedural, where there's a tried and tested formula for how things are done, even if the details differ. I don't know if Cyberpunk had anything similar?

 

[giant.robot]

I think there's multiple contributors to Shadowrun's popularity.

The first I'd point out might seem dumb: trade dress. In the 90s when both games were new people bought books off shelves in a physical store. Shadowrun books had a very recognizable trade dress in their cover layouts, including the spines. I just looked at the Cyberpunk books on my shelf to confirm my memory, their spines are boring as naughty word. If you didn't know what they were you'd easily pass by them on a store shelf. Shadowrun books were very recognizable even from the side.

The second point is related but just the sheer media empire that was FASA in the 90s. They pumped out tons of Shadowrun but also BattleTech and EarthDawn game books. Not only game books but dozens upon dozens of novels. Importantly their game books were available in the same non-game book stores as the novels (same as BattleTech). I only ever found Cyberpunk books in game stores. A wider retail footprint is just going to mean more sales because it means more people just seeing the product.

The third is despite FASA's problems Shadowrun has essentially remained in print since it was first released. By the 00s (before CPv3.0) I don't remember seeing Cyberpunk books anywhere but consignment shelves. It seemed to take a hiatus until recently with Cyberpunk 2077/Red. Meanwhile Shadowrun has been plodding along.

Note I don't say any of this to disparage R.Talsorian. I liked Cyberpunk more than Shadowrun back in the day. I could never really get into Shadowrun. I didn't dislike it, I just didn't play it as much despite it being way more popular than my favored Cyberpunk.

 

[overgeeked]

Fantasy is more popular than sci-fi.

Shadowrun is cyberpunk plus fantasy.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I think a lot of it was quality. SR1 had a few color plates, the cover art was often painting-quality, and there was a more distinctive layout with their "shadowtalk" annotation/forum injecting setting metaphors even into a simple gear book.

CP never really had the lore that SR did.

From the GM side, back in SR1 there were not just adventures but early adventure paths. "Harlequin" was right up there with "War of the Lance" for being a (mostly) ready to run campaign. And you could pick up a dozen stand alone adventures to sprinkle through Harlequin to stretch it out or confuse the matter.

There were plenty of other major metaplots a GM could grab onto: Insect spirits (Mercurial, Universal Brotherhood), Aztlan, HMHVV, or Alamos2k where the stock adventurs could be tweaked to change the Big Bad to your liking.

I also think the mechanics were better, but thats much more subjective.

 

[MGibster]

I'm going to say up front that I prefer Cyberpunk to Shadowrun even though I like both. While I think there might be something to the fantasy element that helps Shadowrun endure, I don't think that's really it. As much as I love Mike Pondsmith and Cyberpunk 2020, new editions of the game continue to disappoint whereas Shadowrun has largely improved.

Cyberpunk - 1989
Cyberpunk 2020 - 1991
Cyberpunk v3.0 - 2005
Cyberpunk Red - 2020

Cyberpunk v3.0 presented us with what is essentailly a post apocalyptic setting in the aftermath of the 4th Corporate War and the total collapse of the net. They used a different set of rules for this version of the game and inexplicably used photographs of dolls dressed up and edgerunners for all their art. Seriously, look below. This version of the game was met with almost universal negativity and they only published 2-3 books.

"Look upon my works and weep." -- Mike Pondsmith (Editor's note: citation needed)

The new game, Cyberpunk Red, went back to a simplified set of the rules used in Cyberpunk 2020, and they've advanced the timeline from the 2030s to 2045. Probably the biggest problem with this game is that a lot of people who played Cyberpunk 2077 on their consoles/computers at home or watched the anime Cyberpunk: Edgerunners Netflix are going to be disappointed that Red is nothing like it. I ran one campaign of Red and my players and I all agreed that it wasn't a very good system and the setting just isn't conducive to the kinds of adventures the game purports to be all about. If I ever run another game of Cyberpunk I will probably go back to 2020.

While I don't care for Cyberpunk Red, at least I was willing to give it a try. I read through 5th edition Shadowrun and said, "No #%$ing way."

 

[jdrakeh]

Re: The Dolls. I've heard that Mike collects them and that all of the examples in Cyberpunk V3.0 were pulled from his personal treasure chest. So it was a way to save money on art and a way to show off something he was personally into. In that respect, the pushback from fans on that angle of production must have hurt.

 

[kigmatzomat]

That's better than my "Mike is a huge fan of 'Robot Chicken'" theory.

 

[MGibster]

Re: The Dolls. I've heard that Mike collects them and that all of the examples in Cyberpunk V3.0 were pulled from his personal treasure chest. So it was a way to save money on art and a way to show off something he was personally into. In that respect, the pushback from fans on that angle of production must have hurt.

That must have been a punch to the gut. I feel bad for not liking the last two versions of Cyberpunk. 2020 remains one of my top RPGs of all time to this day. They produced a lot of supplements for 2020 and almost all of them were excellent.

 

[aramis erak]

I'm sure this may be different now thanks to CP2077 and I only have my own experiences and knowledge but it seems that as far back as I can remember SR was always the bigger brand.

Why is it Shadowrun flew while CP walked/crawled along?

Due to the magic in setting, you can't radically disprove the fantasy physics in SR. Even the net involves the magic flow.

CP is much less fantastic - the only superhumans are genmods or cyborgs. Everything requires a modicum of grounding in science to in-genre.

While I prefer the CP2020 mechanics to SR's (at least the editions I have: 1e 3e), SR requires less work to cross the believability, because it's all «bleep»ing magic.