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Why isn’t ____ personally involved?

RFisher

Explorer
Why isn’t ____ personally involved?

Forked from: Alternatives to "Save the World"

Irda Ranger said:
Generally I don't like "Save The World" campaigns for three reasons:

[edit]
2. Why isn't [Insert Elminster/Mordekainen Equivalent] personally involved?

Let’s hear your reasons!

  • There is no such personage. You’re it, guys!
  • He’s all tied up dealing with even bigger threats, but it’ll all be for naught unless...
  • He doesn’t care anymore. After saving the world for the upteenth time and you still can’t get a free meal at the inn. Forget the lot of you. I’ve got a nice little pocket dimensions I’ll be retiring to just as soon as Cthulhu and his friends wake up, thank you very...well...not at all, really.

(I don’t really disagree with anything in Irda Ranger’s post which I’m forking off of. This is just the kind of thing I like to see how we can rationalize.)
 

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Pierson_Lowgal

First Post
  • He/she is battling another prong of the threat; he can't be everywhere at once
  • He/she has been defeating, either permanently or until the PC's rescue him/her, by the threat already
  • the BBEG posseses his/her kyrptonite
 


StreamOfTheSky

Adventurer
He has some kind of ties to the villain or it's otherwise "complicated."

He's actually in stasis on the Astral Plane, the [name] walking around is a fake actor planted by the villain, all a part of his big scheme, so people don't know [name] isn't there to help them and everything's ok.

He IS doing something about it, it's just REALLY hard. Sure would be nice to have some help...oh, look! An adventuring party!

He crafted a plane-wide contingency spell called "System Restore" in case anything such as the villain's plans should ever go down, to reset to a time prior from the catastrophe enough for it to be prevented, replaying existence over and over until a band of heroes manage to realize they're living through Groundhog Day and get annoyed that all the NPCs are oblivious about it. Yeah, he's THAT powerful.
 

kibbitz

First Post
Heh... and I was considering forking the post myself. Anyway, why can't he be personally involved? Wouldn't it be logical for the intelligent BBEG to engineer enough plots and problems to occupy all the known threats while carrying out its dastardly schemes?
 

Set

First Post
1) He's not so much a person, as a title, which is this enormous friggin' secret. The real Dread Archmage Diego died 37 years ago, and his apprentice took over. It's been passed down for decades, and there have been at least six different 'Dread Archmage Diegos.' Why do you think he always has that flowing robe and that creepy skull-mask? Heck, one of them was even his grand-daughter! Anyway, the current 'Dread Archmage Diego' isn't exactly an Archmage. Actually, he's kind of in-training, after the last Dread Archmage Diego mis-drew a summoning diagram.

2) Helminster's got this really great connection with this order of Bards who call themselves Those Who Trumpet, and they *may* have been a *teensy* bit overzealous in their promotion of his talents. I mean, it's great to have all these songs sung about your historic deeds, and how your trusty manservant Wong is actually the deposed prince of Hethyr and your girlfriend is the ruler of Haglarond, but it turns out that the immortal Chosen Helminster is actually an 8th level Diviner with a really cool collection of maps and doesn't so much sleep with the goddess of magic, and, indeed, is kind of suffering under a curse from said goddess of magic because of that particular rumor. I guess she's not as easy as the 'Lay of Helminster' suggested.

3) Oh, Frizzt the legendary dark elven hunter with his bi-curious relationship with that magic anime catgirl and his twin swords Twinkle and Moonbeam! Yeah, he's, well, really good at killing Orcs. They're his favored enemy, after all. Dragons, demons, lich-kings? Not so much. He's kinda specialized in Orcs. Do call if you need any Orcs killed 'though!

4) Lemminkainen? No? Oh, Mordenkainen! Oh gosh, he's the one who lives in that tower with no doors or windows, right? Yeah, I heard that Stumpy Sam the Cart-man tried to break into that place once. They just called him 'Sam,' back then. No, I have no idea how to contact him.

5) The Witch-Queen of the Shining Woods? Uh, no. Seriously. She eats people. I'm not even kidding. We leave her alone, she doesn't leave the Shining Woods with her Wyld Hunt Werewolves and eat us. It's an arrangement that has worked well for centuries, and, as Mayor of Town Too Close to the Shining Woods, I will mobilize a pitchfork-and-torch-wielding-angry-mob to stop you if you even *think* of stirring up that hornet's nest! Oh yeah, I've heard the propaganda. 'The Shining Woods is a democratic society, where happy creatively fulfilled elves and humans live together in joyous harmony, singing songs and turning out fine woodcrafts.' Go ahead and think that if it helps you sleep at night. Do you really think they'd be able to undercut the lumber market if those 'happy elves and humans' were getting *paid* to work themselves to death? It's not Santa's Workshop up there...

6) Yeah, the Diagram of Eight. Powerful mages, archmages even, they say. I can't remember, either Larry the Traitor killed them all, or maybe it was that Liche-God Voldemort or whatever, when he tried to steal the power of the gods. Some of them are said to still be alive, or have come back from the dead. Either way, they're not answering the door and my theory is that they've died enough times in the last five years that they aren't taking visitors for the next decade or so. Thank you, come again!

7) Hey! That *is* a thought. I'll call Sheila the Spellfire-girl! She can blow undead dragons out of the sky! Thanks for the idea! You can go now. I wouldn't want you kids to get hurt...

8) All I have to do is snap this stick he gave me years ago, and Thornwylde, the Grand Druid, will be called to help me, to honor our ancient pact. <Snap>

"Oh dear. You, you're not Thornwylde..."
"Actually, I am. I converted to evil and became a lich over a decade ago."
"I didn't know Druids could become liches..."
[ticking off on fingers] "Humanoid. Spellcaster. Must have Craft Wondrous Item feat. RTFM, noob."
"Well crud."
 
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Jeff Wilder

First Post
One of the things I really like about Eberron is that they really are it. My PCs are 11th level, and higher level NPCs are very few and far between, especially those of a heroic bent. (It's a little odd, if you think about ... a war lasting over 100 years and there aren't any high-level fighters, at least? But I can hand-wave it, because I like the effect on the game.)
 

FalcWP

Explorer
<Awesomeness>

That made me chuckle. Quite a bit.

It's a little odd, if you think about ... a war lasting over 100 years and there aren't any high-level fighters, at least? But I can hand-wave it, because I like the effect on the game.

Beating up other 1st level commoners and the occasional 2nd level warrior is great for getting from level 1 to maybe level 3 for NPCs. Beyond that, tough to get enough XP to keep moving forward without going after either big groups who will eventually roll enough 20s to kill them, or warforged titans, vampires, and other higher CR stuff... that will kill them. Much safer to sit in the trench and grind what little XP you get than to go looking to make it big.

Also, there's the tiny problem that high level mover-and-shaker NPCs aren't fighters. They're spellcasters. High level fighters are the king's bodyguard, or the warlord's champion, or anything *but* the important guy you run to when the whole world is going to pot.
 

Jeff Wilder

First Post
Beating up other 1st level commoners and the occasional 2nd level warrior is great for getting from level 1 to maybe level 3 for NPCs. Beyond that, tough to get enough XP to keep moving forward without going after either big groups who will eventually roll enough 20s to kill them, or warforged titans, vampires, and other higher CR stuff... that will kill them.
All of them?

Much safer to sit in the trench and grind what little XP you get than to go looking to make it big.
Why are the PCs adventuring again? I'd think "for king and country" would potentially be a bigger motivator to take on tough bad guys than "for gold and more gold."

Also, there's the tiny problem that high level mover-and-shaker NPCs aren't fighters.
That's beside the point. I was noting the lack of high-level NPCs in Eberron, especially -- given the Last War and the number of warriors and fighters who participated in it -- the weird lack of high-level fighters.

High level fighters are the king's bodyguard, or the warlord's champion, or anything *but* the important guy you run to when the whole world is going to pot.
Except that in Eberron those guys aren't high level, either, at least according to published sources.

And, again, I'm fine with that. It's odd from a world-logic perspective, but in this case i prefer the benefits of ignoring that bit of world-logic.
 

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