Why isn't base attack a skill?

[Crothian]

Man, I didn't know Hero, GURPS, Tri-Stat, Rolemaster and so many other games sucked.

Thank you for your clever insights and witty looks into a designer's mind. I appreciate it!

They aren't level based.

The thing is BAB is a skill and you do choose how often it goes up by taking levels in certain classes. If you want your character to have a really good BAB then you take levels in fighter, paladin, etc. But if you want other things like the spells or the skills, then BAB isn't going to be so high as those choices don't offer it.

 

[Philip]

A. Because skills are heavily tied into intelligence in DnD, and they didn't want intelligence to be the prime stat for every class.

B. Attack skill rolls are not part of the 'general skill flow' because of their frequency. Attack roll 'skill checks' would become the most common skill check by far in D&D. Meaning that investing a point in the attack skill would be worth far more than investing a point in sense motive.

 

[billd91]

As far as the higher initial results, yes, that could be somewhat problematic, but at the same time, one of the things I've heard people HATE, with like black burning venmon, is that a 1st level character is so useless that he might as well hide in the sewer and kill giant rats until 4th level.

And why NOT start by killing rats in the sewer? You gotta start somewhere! Start with base vermin and work yourself up to dragons.

Buying up your attack values directly, and at nearly any level you want, works for some games. It's great for superhero games in which the PCs are expected to be better at combat than the normal guy. But level-based games in particular are designed to work PC up from lowly dirt farmers and spitoon holders (or more often, hobbit gardeners and gentry or young enslaved Cimmerians) to great heroes and pass through the developmental steps on the way.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

How about this:

EDIT: Removed bad example brought about by trying to multi-task, which is obviously beyond my meager abilities...

 

[Crothian]

How about this:

1st level, Half-Orc Barbarian with rage on - +17/+12 to attack (assumes 20 Str raged to a 24, +4 ranks, a +2 to skill feat, the +3 skill focus feat, +1 weapon focus)

wow, three feats at first level....impressive

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

wow, three feats at first level....impressive

And that, folks, is why COBOL (computer programming language) and D&D don't mix...

Ok, well I probably should be working and obviously I'm not thinking straight. So, I still think that this would be out of line for CR:

1st Level Human Barbarian when raging: +15 (maybe +15/+10)

18 str raged to 22 for a +6, +2 feat, +3 skill focus, +4 ranks...


There, 2 feats for a 1st level human...

 

[Crothian]

18 str raged to 22 for a +6, +2 feat, +3 skill focus, +4 ranks...

Well, it wqould be a way for skill focus to become useful.....

 

[JoeGKushner]

They aren't level based.

The thing is BAB is a skill and you do choose how often it goes up by taking levels in certain classes. If you want your character to have a really good BAB then you take levels in fighter, paladin, etc. But if you want other things like the spells or the skills, then BAB isn't going to be so high as those choices don't offer it.

Man Rolemaster isn't level based? I must stop smoking so much of the devil herb!

And if you consider BAB a skill, why do rogues have to pay points to Move Silently and Hide in Shadows as opposed to being a gimme? And why can characters who don't get those as class skills still purchase them?

 

[Crothian]

And if you consider BAB a skill, why do rogues have to pay points to Move Silently and Hide in Shadows as opposed to being a gimme? And why can characters who don't get those as class skills still purchase them?

BAB is a special skill, it works differently. Sneak attack, casying spells, there are lots of other skills that people have that just don't work inside the skill point system. Rogues have a bunch of skills that work the same so they have to make choices to get them. Cross class are still skills, just skills that that class is not going to be as good at thus the increased cost and greater limit on max ranks.

 

[Psion]

Well, I would like to see attack rolls as a skill, especially in some d20 variant games.

But if you think about it, those who rely on it are going to be the best at it anyways.

And then, as someone else mentioned, it makes second rank fighters harder to balance.

So there are certainly some arguments against it.