Why modern movies suck - they teach us awful lessons

[UngainlyTitan]

A couple of points occur to me:

One should not make a premise on a forum thread solely by reference to a to a video or other external reference. At least put enough into the post to state a premise, they by all means add external support.

Second; Sturgeon's Law applies but there have been decent, dare I say even good movies made in recent times. Many of the block busters have been entertaining, some even good. There have a fair share of flops but that has always been the way.
The past seems better than it was because for the most part we do not remember the crap.

This reminds me of watching reruns of the "Old Grey Whistle Test" in the eighties? A pretty acclaimed music show on the BBC from the sixties/Seventies and you know what most of the bands were crap. We just remember the ones that became famous.

Directors writing script is neither here nor there, they have always written scripts to varying degrees of success. Some famous script writers have written some clangers also. If there was an actual magic formula we would have discovered it by now. Although MCU seems to be getting close.

 

[BookTenTiger]

The bigger idea is to not criticize female characters for things you let male characters skate by on.

Exactly.

When participating in critique of any art, it's important to be aware of the systemic biases at play. Throughout Hollywood history, the system has been biased against female actors, directors, writers, etc. A thoughtful critic, then, will check their own critique for bias. Using a term like "Mary Sue" is not just an obvious red flag for a biased critic, it also perpetuates the existing power structures that have held back non-male actors, directors, writers, and so on. The critic in the video is basically creating a further obstacle a female character must bypass in order to be on the same playing field as a male character.

That's why when someone uses the term Mary Sue in their critique, I stop taking them seriously.

 

[darkwillow]

I think the big idea is to not use the term Mary Sue.

Because it was created by a woman? Seems sexist.

 

[darkwillow]

The critic in the video is basically creating a further obstacle a female character must bypass in order to be on the same playing field as a male character.

Or you could just write a good character, which is the point, regardless of the gender. Thats the problem when people rail against any criticism of any xyz character due to political reasons, you just perpetuate bad writing, bad story telling and its a shame.

 

[BookTenTiger]

Because it was created by a woman? Seems sexist.

Very funny!

TV Tropes has a great, extensive article on the term: Mary Sue

Mary Sue is a derogatory term primarily used in Fan Fic circles to describe a particular type of character. This much everyone can agree on. What that character type is, exactly, differs wildly from circle to circle, and often from person to person.

It's honestly a great article.

 

[BookTenTiger]

Or you could just write a good character, which is the point, regardless of the gender. Thats the problem when people rail against any criticism of any xyz character due to political reasons, you just perpetuate bad writing, bad story telling and its a shame.

I would argue that using the term Mary Sue in a critique is, in itself, a political statement.

 

[Guest 7034872]

I'm afraid ultimately I have to agree with darkwillow (and the Critical Drinker) on this one: I really don't care what the writers' or directors' politics are: I care whether they have a well-written story (one I'd take the time to read in book form) and whether their characters are three-dimensional and compelling and not just these cardboard cut-outs used to promote some moral or political message. It truly is irrelevant to me if the chosen message is one with which I agree or not: what kills it is the emphasis on such a message at the expense of three-dimensional characters and/or a well-written story.

Hollywood has used a lot of cardboard over this past decade or so.

 

[Morrus]

Ok, I'll bite. Why is the term "Mary Sue" in 2022 bad?

These days? Because it's a dogwhistle. It's a clear red flag, and almost exclusively used by people with questionable views on diversity.

 

[Blue Orange]

IS there a neutral term? I've seen 'Gary Stu' or "Marty Stu' for the male equivalent, which could apparently describe Conan the Barbarian from what I've read about Robert E. Howard. (Probably James Bond too...)

 

[AnotherGuy]

On top of that, in the comics, she was a raging alcoholic.

I do not count that as a strike for 2 primary reasons.
Plenty of male alcoholic heroes/protagonists.
Marvel, more so than DC, had their heroes battling personal issues which I felt was a cool shtick, trying to make them more relatable.