Why must a special ritual always come in 'Ancient Tome' format?

[Henry]

Although I do agree, why is it always ancient? Why do we think the 'ancients' knew more then us? Why is this such a standard? I'd like to think we can think up new and more powerful destructive forces on our own thank you.
-cpd

Rather than the "they do" answer, I'll go with "they did." From the Classical period to the Dark Ages, much in the way of knowledge, sophistication of technique, and organization was lost to the simple struggle for day to day survival. The meme of "the ancients had it better" came from The Petrarchan Revision of the Renaissance, but it was grounded in the fact that there was a lot of culture and progress lost when Rome wated away from the AD 100's to 500's. Heck, it actually existed before then (referencing the Greek myths and plays) but not to the extent that it did from the Renaissance onward. That meme eventually made it into Science Fiction from fantasy, from what I can tell, and "the Ancients", "The Seeders", "Chariots of the Gods", etc. carried the idea to a whole different audience.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

You can have your cake and eat it too. Why not have a ritual in an ancient tome that isn't very good? The ritual as written is hard to perform and requires exotic materials, but if the PCs do a little work on their own they can improve on it.

Man, I'm such a nerd ... I'm taking my java programming performance improvement education and applying it to fictional magic rituals.


But back to the topic! Another thing you could do is have the ritual be flat-out-wrong. The ancients never actually tried the ritual you see, it was just theoretical. But give the players warning on that though. Tell them in some fashion that the ritual was never performed so they at least have a clue.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Rituals are all about power. Not neccesarily things like arcane or divine power, but the power of demonstrating great knowledge and influence. It is showmanship. Is it more impressive for a cleric to be able to speak some quiet words, make a few gestures and cast Storm of Vengeance in one round, or to gather a mass of acolytes and lesser priests, speak and gesture magnificently for an extended period, drawing all eyes to him and then unleashing the fury of the storm?

Why are D&D plot rituals usually Ancient rituals? They are all about forgotten, often forbidden, power that someone has actively suppressed, by hiding it or wiping out those who have it.

Why aren't there new ones people are researching/creating/discovering? Perhaps because those that suppressed the knowledge still try and do so today. Perhaps because casters these days are out for instant gratification and don't want to take the time to research a three day ritual that involves 24 people in order to shake the very world, when they can already cast some pretty potent stuff.

 

[gizmo33]

This is not to knock the Egyptians or the Aztecs; their accomplishments were truly astounding for their time. But we in the modern world certainly know more than they did.

Maybe it doesn't matter. This is DnD, so the theme of "ancients were better than modern people" I think is as much at home as dragons and elves. The fantasy fact that the ancients were superior in their knowledge of magic would explain why powerful rituals would only be found in ancient tomes. People's current knowledge of such things would be insufficient for them to invent a ritual of similar power.

 

[rgard]

Because they did. You only have to do a little research on the Pyramids to see this. Even with todays modern construction methods we cannot make them to the same exact dimensions as the ancient Egyptions did.

The Aztecs had a fully detailed calender that is incredibly accurate for such an ancient civilisation.

We can make pyramids. Problem is we have to be motivated to do it. The Egyptians were motivated socially and religiously to build the pyramids. We don't have the same motivations that they did. For us there isn't much ROI associated with building a pyramid that doesn't have any relevant function for us.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[rgard]

I've just read the 'Magic Events' section in the DMG II, and it got me thinking. Every time there is a special artifact or ritual as part of a plot in a RPG, it is either done by a NPC or it is discovered in some ancient tome (which was also written by a NPC).

I think it would be much more satisfying for the players to have their own characters invent those rituals, rather than a NPC. If I'm a powerful spell caster that can bend reality to his will, why can I not use my knowledge of magic and my mystic powers to invent a ritual of my own? Why do I need the help of other's books to accomplish this?
Sure, having a book describe how such a thing was already done in the past can be of great help, but I don't think it should be the default method, let alone the only method.

I agree with you. Would be nice the other way around and I've played some of my PCs that way. While the Fighters and all are off building kingdoms at high level, I have my Wizard locked in his tower researching something cool.

As for the theme in RPGs that it is usually old knowledge or even old manufacturing, it's a well used plot device in literature and movies:

1. Gandalf uses Glamdring instead of a newer sword.
2. Conan and company ride off in search of a god's horn so the evil sorceress can re-animate dead god using an ancient ritual.

Our RPGs are heavily influenced by the fantasy genre, both literature and movies.

thanks,
Rich

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

We can make pyramids. Problem is we have to be motivated to do it. The Egyptians were motivated socially and religiously to build the pyramids. We don't have the same motivations that they did. For us there isn't much ROI associated with building a pyramid that doesn't have any relevant function for us.

Thanks,
Rich

Especially since we wouldn't have slaves to provide the manual labor. The cost would be enormous.


As for ancient knowledge in modern times, how often lately has "new" medical research done little more than prove correct "old wive's tales?" Sometimes ancient knowledge can be lost because later evidence convinces people it was wrong, only to find out people of that time knew more than it was believed.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'm actually considering both ways for Midwood: The player characters will eventually get a chance to find the ritual the kobolds are intending to use to wipe out the barony (it won't be in a book, although it will be written down, albeit in a very static form). I might have an NPC suggest they try to develop a counter-ritual, although I'm not sure how to do that where it wouldn't sound like the DM just telling them a possible answer.

 

[Mallus]

<Tevye>
Why must ritual come in tome?

Tradition!
</Tevye>

 

[Piratecat]

This thread has caused me to have an epiphany. Forget ancient tomes - for the next epic ritual that occurs in my game, I'm going to have the party diviner roll back his eyes and just write the book himself.

Cool!