Okay, maybe I won't say it's a fact that 3.5/Pathfinder combat much faster than combat in 4E, but I will say that in my experience with various groups of people (so different DMs and different players) that combat in the 3.5/Pathfinder system can be resolved in approximately one third of the time that it would take in 4E with PC's being about the same level and the combat being at approximately the same level of difficulty.
Why Must I Kludge My Combat?
- Thread starter Stormonu
- Start date
Crothian
First Post
There are plenty of factors that can slow down a game one of the most importance being familiar with the game. For people that have playing 3e for 10 years and 4e for almost two it makes sense to me that 3e works faster for them.
Obviously, I have no idea if that is a reason for your own case but I know it would be for my own.
Familiarity may have something to do with it, but I don't think it's the main reason I've seen 4E combat take so much longer. The 4E games involved people very familiar with the system, and some of the Pathfinder games had one person new to the system, with the rest being very familiar with it.
Wiseblood
Adventurer
The fights for my group might be a little quicker in PF. The main difference I see is that there are few abilities that go off during someone else's turn in PF. In 4e you generally have to remain vigilant. It's like having a 8-9 hour workday and not taking any breaks. While the 8-9 hour day isn't abnormally long it will seem to be so beacuse there have been no breaks.
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Hussar
Legend
And yet... and yet, my experience is the complete opposite. My first 4e experience was with a new DM (not only new to 4e, but had never DM'd anything before) two brand new 4e players (myself and one other) and two experienced 4e players.
We played the Rivenroar module. Combats took about 40 minutes each.
By what you are saying, we should have been taking hours to play through.
Never minding the WOTC podcasts themselves, all of which showing combats taking around 40 minutes as well.
Hey, in 3e, by the end of things, we had our combats down to about 40 minutes as well, most of the time. Until we hit double digit levels, and then combats went from 3 or 4 per session to one.
Now, I do play in another 4e game as a player. There, combats have taken up to two hours. But, that's not system, that's player problem. The same group was glacially slow in 3e as well.
I find it very hard to understand how anyone could blast through 3e combats in under an hour and then see their time double in 4e. 4e is easier than 3e. There's no grapple rules, AOO's are considerably more simplified and you have far less standard options like trip or disarm to grind the game to a halt.
What are you doing in 4e that takes you so much longer than 3e?
Wik
First Post
There's a thread by Blargney kicking around where we time our combat sessions - as well as what resources were used.
Most of our combats are in the 1 hour mark, give or take fifteen minutes. Our 3e fights were pretty fast... up until the group hit 7th level or so, and then they got much longer.
4e, on the other hand, seems to be about the same throughout. Blargney's posts on this are a pretty good empirical indicator of this.
Also, while we could say combats in 4e are longer (not sure I agree with that, as a general rule), I'd say it's a fact that individual turns are far shorter - a 3e fight often ends in two or three rounds, while a 4e encounter usually takes about six or seven (from my experience).
Most of our combats are in the 1 hour mark, give or take fifteen minutes. Our 3e fights were pretty fast... up until the group hit 7th level or so, and then they got much longer.
4e, on the other hand, seems to be about the same throughout. Blargney's posts on this are a pretty good empirical indicator of this.
Also, while we could say combats in 4e are longer (not sure I agree with that, as a general rule), I'd say it's a fact that individual turns are far shorter - a 3e fight often ends in two or three rounds, while a 4e encounter usually takes about six or seven (from my experience).
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
I can't speak for anyone but my own group, but there's a lot more PCs with fussy powers and the ratio of damage dealing ability to monster hit points is reduced. That's been quite enough to cause combat to soak up a lot more time than comparable combats in 3e with the players otherwise being the same (and playing with pretty much the same style).
Sorry to necro. I have tracked my last post since I visited the forum last time and it seems I left this unanswered.
I felt like I had to reply to this one debate I left.
So, well, regarding the matter, I am too lazy to actually try to make something serious now (fun, tactical miniless combat).
But I will be keeping it in mind. In the meantime, if anyone still wishes and has something-some idea to discuss we can start a new thread.
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