Why no +1 to Stat races?
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Terath Ninir
Yog Sothoth loves you
jaerdaph said:Yes you are correct, and THANK YOU!
You're welcome. When you're going for, say, whirlwind attack, you really sweat your odd ability scores.
How about this
Because in D&D, the real stats go from -4 to +4 for normal humans. These are the numbers that get used and they are the ones that matter. But for historical reasons, scores need to range from 3 to 18. So the bonuses are mapped to this range, so that every +1 on the real stat equals a +2 on the fake stat. I mean the actual score is rarely used at all. The only examples I can think of are a few feat requirements and spellcasting maximums. But those would be replaced easily enough.
I base my point by system on these 'real stats', where you pick your stats to add up to +8. Or more or less, depending on the campaign.
Because in D&D, the real stats go from -4 to +4 for normal humans. These are the numbers that get used and they are the ones that matter. But for historical reasons, scores need to range from 3 to 18. So the bonuses are mapped to this range, so that every +1 on the real stat equals a +2 on the fake stat. I mean the actual score is rarely used at all. The only examples I can think of are a few feat requirements and spellcasting maximums. But those would be replaced easily enough.
I base my point by system on these 'real stats', where you pick your stats to add up to +8. Or more or less, depending on the campaign.
Lord Pendragon
First Post
I buy it. Mainly because I know that if there were +1/-1 stat changes, the very first thing I'd do on every character is hide the penalty. I hate penalties. So it makes sense that, to have characters retain some weaknesses with the strengths, they prevent that.Cyberzombie said:I just don't think it matters in real gaming situations. But, like I said, I like the +2 bonus, so I'm not complaining. I'm just not buying the explenation they're selling.
The Souljourner
First Post
Feat requirements and level based stat bonuses are the only things that really care about a +1.
And you can't use stat raises as an excuse to why it's ok... because you often put most of your stat raises into one stat, which may not be the stat in which you get the +1. For example, take a cleric with 10 Dex who gets +1 dex from his race. Is he really going to put a stat raise into Dex instead of Wisdom, just because it gets him up to 12? Probably not. That character has gained absolutely no benefit from that +1 racial bonus.
And feat requirements also aren't a viable factor, because the +1 is going to matter really rarely. Pretty much, if you have a 12 and you want to take a feat that requires a 13 in that stat and you get +1 to that stat, then the +1 will help, otherwise it won't.... and that's the meat of the problem... +1 doesn't always help. For some characters it will be the equivalent of a +2, and for some characters it will be the equivalent of a +0. That's a big difference.
That's why you make racial bonuses to stats in multiples of 2. +2 dex will *always* give +1 to reflex saves and +1 to AC and +1 to a bunch of skills.
-The Souljourner
And you can't use stat raises as an excuse to why it's ok... because you often put most of your stat raises into one stat, which may not be the stat in which you get the +1. For example, take a cleric with 10 Dex who gets +1 dex from his race. Is he really going to put a stat raise into Dex instead of Wisdom, just because it gets him up to 12? Probably not. That character has gained absolutely no benefit from that +1 racial bonus.
And feat requirements also aren't a viable factor, because the +1 is going to matter really rarely. Pretty much, if you have a 12 and you want to take a feat that requires a 13 in that stat and you get +1 to that stat, then the +1 will help, otherwise it won't.... and that's the meat of the problem... +1 doesn't always help. For some characters it will be the equivalent of a +2, and for some characters it will be the equivalent of a +0. That's a big difference.
That's why you make racial bonuses to stats in multiples of 2. +2 dex will *always* give +1 to reflex saves and +1 to AC and +1 to a bunch of skills.
-The Souljourner
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Beholder Bob
First Post
Odd stat # modifiers should be used, but with 2 requirements.
1) No non-random stat buys
2) You choose the PC's race prior to rolling
With these 2 met, no min/max is possible during character creation. But is it worth it/what do you get for doing this?
Currently, having a +4 stat modifier is overly powerful and +6 is a sure way to require an ECL mod. But say you wish to make races with more variety of stats, w/out pushing this envelope... instead of +2/+4/+6, you could use +1/+2/+3 and have a divergent range for racial stats. I have done so for my game, allowing for a wider range of modifiers. Also - there are no mental stat modifiers for any prime race due to fear of creating the 'penultimate - if you’re a wizard you'd better be one of us' races. A +1 charisma, intelligence, or wisdom will allow for the slightly smarter or wiser but without the 1st level overpowered jump (2 bonus spells to a 1st level character is overpowered good, though the impact lessons as you rise in levels) seen with +2 or higher mods.
The real advantage is being able to give out smaller bonuses, for slight changes. A race with +1 dexterity is good but not imbalanced. A 1/2 bugbear with a +3 strength is powerful but doesn't replace/completely overshadow the 1/2 orc.
As a side note, I use a modified system for generating characteristics that mixes random with stat buy, suggested by Maggot (of enworld): initial stats are 15,14,13,11,10,8 - place as you wish. Next, roll 6d6. Every roll of 1 = +1 STR, 2=+1 CON, 3=+1 DEX, 4=+1 INT, 5=+1 WIS, 6=+1 CHA. Reroll any die that would create a stat higher then 18 (before race mod).
B![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
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1) No non-random stat buys
2) You choose the PC's race prior to rolling
With these 2 met, no min/max is possible during character creation. But is it worth it/what do you get for doing this?
Currently, having a +4 stat modifier is overly powerful and +6 is a sure way to require an ECL mod. But say you wish to make races with more variety of stats, w/out pushing this envelope... instead of +2/+4/+6, you could use +1/+2/+3 and have a divergent range for racial stats. I have done so for my game, allowing for a wider range of modifiers. Also - there are no mental stat modifiers for any prime race due to fear of creating the 'penultimate - if you’re a wizard you'd better be one of us' races. A +1 charisma, intelligence, or wisdom will allow for the slightly smarter or wiser but without the 1st level overpowered jump (2 bonus spells to a 1st level character is overpowered good, though the impact lessons as you rise in levels) seen with +2 or higher mods.
The real advantage is being able to give out smaller bonuses, for slight changes. A race with +1 dexterity is good but not imbalanced. A 1/2 bugbear with a +3 strength is powerful but doesn't replace/completely overshadow the 1/2 orc.
As a side note, I use a modified system for generating characteristics that mixes random with stat buy, suggested by Maggot (of enworld): initial stats are 15,14,13,11,10,8 - place as you wish. Next, roll 6d6. Every roll of 1 = +1 STR, 2=+1 CON, 3=+1 DEX, 4=+1 INT, 5=+1 WIS, 6=+1 CHA. Reroll any die that would create a stat higher then 18 (before race mod).
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SpikeyFreak
First Post
How would you handle odd number stat prereqs for feats and PrCs?JackS said:
--Intrigued Spikey
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