D&D (2024) Why no new packs since late September?

[Maxperson]

A bit of a stretch, isn't it?

You don't honestly want to tell me, that you don't notice a difference between +20 bab and +6 prof bonus at level 20?

Not a stretch at all if your criteria is "it works." Would I notice the difference? Yep! Just like I would notice the difference between getting a 1st level feat and not getting one, and my ranger having wildly different abilities than your ranger.

You don't honestly want to tell me that I couldn't roll 1d20+20 and compare it to the 5e monster's AC and then deal damage, do you? Because if I can do that, it works. That it's not balance isn't relevant, since having a 1st level feat vs. not having one, and having wildly different powers as a ranger is also not balanced. The 3e example is just a more extreme example of "it works."

 

[Maxperson]

Not to mention completely different defenses! I didn't play 3e but I assume they had Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves in the classes?

Those are just con, wisdom and dex saves. I can also roll cha, int and str saves with the 3e PC in a 5e game with no change to the character sheet. I have those stat bonuses on the sheet and they are just the same as 5e. An 18 strength on my 3e PC is a +4 strength save just the same as the 5e PC with an 18 strength.

 

[dave2008]

You don't honestly want to tell me that I couldn't roll 1d20+20 and compare it to the 5e monster's AC and then deal damage, do you?

Your just being silly Max. That is not you. 1d20+20 vs 1d20+6 is not the same kind difference as adding a 1st lvl feat vs not having one would be.

 

[Maxperson]

Perhaps not in your group. I've seen a lot of love for both.

Yep. I've DM'd for both a 2014 monk and a 2014 ranger.

 

[dave2008]

Those are just con, wisdom and dex saves.

Or they could be Strength, Charisma, & Intelligence saves.

I can also roll cha, int and str saves with the 3e PC in a 5e game with no change to the character sheet. I have those stat bonuses on the sheet and they are just the same as 5e. An 18 strength on my 3e PC is a +4 strength save just the same as the 5e PC with an 18 strength.

Not sure what you are comparing now. If you are suggesting you could take a level 1 PC from 3e and play it with 5e rules. Yes you could, with minimal conversion.

However, you cannot advance a 3e PC with 3e progression and expect it to play nice at 10th level with 5e PCs. You can do that with the playtest PCs and the '14 PCs.

 

[Maxperson]

Your just being silly Max. That is not you. 1d20+20 vs 1d20+6 is not the same kind difference as adding a 1st lvl feat vs not having one would be.

No. It's much more extreme. What I'm saying is that the 3e process works just fine in 5e. Nothing about the process breaks down because the edition is different. And "it works" was his criteria.

Personally, I need more than "it works."

 

[Maxperson]

However, you cannot advance a 3e PC with 3e progression and expect it to play nice at 10th level with 5e PCs. You can do that with the playtest PCs and the '14 PCs.

Can you? Suppose I'm not allowing feats because they are optional in 5e. How do the new PCs that have default feats built in play nicely? How is it fair to the 2014 ranger to allow the much better expert ranger into the same game? How is it fair to the 2014 bard to allow the expert bard with his better abilities into the same game?

The disparity is far less than it is with the 3e PC because of bounded accuracy, but it still doesn't play nicely.

 

[dave2008]

No. It's much more extreme. What I'm saying is that the 3e process works just fine in 5e. Nothing about the process breaks down because the edition is different. And "it works" was his criteria.

Personally, I need more than "it works."

I don't think that is what he meant by "it works" though do you?

 

[dave2008]

Can you? Suppose I'm not allowing feats because they are optional in 5e. How do the new PCs that have default feats built in play nicely? How is it fair to the 2014 ranger to allow the much better expert ranger into the same game? How is it fair to the 2014 bard to allow the expert bard with his better abilities into the same game?

The disparity is far less than it is with the 3e PC because of bounded accuracy, but it still doesn't play nicely.

It plays at least as nicely as a 5e wizard next to a 5e fighter.

And honestly a single level 1 feat just doesn't change much. It is nice, but not such a big difference that it is really noticeable at the table and if it does bother people, just give them a lvl 1 feat too!

FYI, I ran an adventure with group and they played 4 rogues (playtest, '14, playtest without lvl 1 feat, & '14+lvl 1 feat) plus a '14 fighter and as the DM I couldn't tell who was who. They players didn't have any complaints either. To me, that is playing nice together. Now, we obviously didn't hit have potential scenario which could have brought issues to light, but in general it worked great.

 

[dave2008]

We also seem to always forget this caveat from the playtests: