Why no new packs since late September?

[mellored]

2024 PCs will be decidedly more powerful than their 2014 counterparts.

Do you have math to back that up?
Or is it just what you are afraid of?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

That part. It won't be backwards compatible in any real sense. 2024 PCs will be decidedly more powerful than their 2014 counterparts. The 5E modules are already laughably easy mode with the exception of one or two nasty fights.

I guess if you think being able to run through the modules means it's backwards compatible, then the exact same can be said of most earlier editions. All the monsters have AC and hit points and damage. All you have to do is flip the descending armor class to ascending armor class and presto, backwards compatible. Just ignore that modern PCs will easily slaughter most old-school D&D monsters. But hey, backwards compatible!

This is an incredible interesting statement. First, 5e is easy mode is just a made up story. No, there are no save or dies... which were prevalent in earlier editions. Which was not hard mode, but either gambling or needed gaming the system...
Second, I just don't know how you cam onow that characters are way more powerful. All I see is one more feat. That's it. There are already videos on how they nerfed the rogue... murdered they said.

No, most probably characters will be more powerful for normal people and less powerful for optimizers... They will probably cut out the most annoying rules holes and help less liked classes and subclasses.
Look at grappling and the rogue. Both are nerfed for optimizers and buffed for non optimizers. I hope that will be a trend.

 

[overgeeked]

Do you have math to back that up?
Or is it just what you are afraid of?

The books haven't been released. But a few playtest packets have. So I can go off those.

Let's see. Where's the power creep in the playtest? Oh, right. Everywhere. Feats will no longer be optional and everyone gets them at 1st level. All feats will be upgraded to 1/2 feats, so even already OP feats will be even more OP. Class features will be normalized and moved to slightly lower levels and new features will be added, most obviously capstones moved to a lower level and epic boons added as the new captstones. Exhaustion will go from a 6-point scale with real drastic drawbacks, to a sliding 10-point scale with only -1 to d20 tests.

Those are the ones I remember off-the-top-of-my head. I checked out after the Expert packet dropped and didn't bother giving feedback. I'm sure there's more I just don't remember them. And I'm sure there will be more.

 

[mellored]

Where's the power creep in the playtest? Oh, right. Everywhere.

that is not math

Feats will no longer be optional and everyone gets them at 1st level.

A 2014 ranger could have crossbow expert and sharpshooter by level 4.

In the playtest, you need to be ranger 8.

How is that a buff?

All feats will be upgraded to 1/2 feats, so even already OP feats will be even more OP.

None of the level 1 feats are half feats.

You miss the part where they removed the +10 damage from sharpshooter.
And tavern brawler lost the ability to use all improvised weapons.
Lucky now only gives advantage, so no longer stacks with it.
Dual wielder lost it's +1 AC.

Was there some particular feat you are worried about.

Class features will be normalized and moved to slightly lower levels and new features will be added,

and other features will be removed.

most obviously capstones moved to a lower level and epic boons added as the new captstones.

The only thing that really does is let people play past 20.

Exhaustion will go from a 6-point scale with real drastic drawbacks, to a sliding 10-point scale with only -1 to d20 tests.

So the berserkers goes from terrible to bad. Still don't see how that makes the game a easy.

Those are the ones I remember off-the-top-of-my head. I checked out after the Expert packet dropped and didn't bother giving feedback. I'm sure there's more I just don't remember them. And I'm sure there will be more.

There's a lot more you missed, yes.

It's like you only saw the buffs, and completely ignored the nerfs.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

that is not math

A 2014 ranger could have crossbow expert and sharpshooter by level 4.

In the playtest, you need to be ranger 8.

How is that a buff?

None of the level 1 feats are half feats.

You miss the part where they removed the +10 damage from sharpshooter.
And tavern brawler lost the ability to use all improvised weapons.
Lucky now only gives advantage, so no longer stacks with it.
Dual wielder lost it's +1 AC.

Was there some particular feat you are worried about.

and other features will be removed.

The only thing that really does is let people play past 20.

So the berserkers goes from terrible to bad. Still don't see how that makes the game a easy.

There's a lot more you missed, yes.

It's like you only saw the buffs, and completely ignored the nerfs.

And then, this is not finalized content in any way... or is it?

 

[mellored]

And then, this is not finalized content in any way... or is it?

Nope. This is a playtest.
Released is in 2024.

But so far, they have reduced the most powerful stuff, and buffed the less powerful stuff. As well as simplified a few confusing things.

So it should just be more balanced and refined. But still the same base level math.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Nope. This is a playtest.
Released is in 2024.

But so far, they have reduced the most powerful stuff, and buffed the less powerful stuff. As well as simplified a few confusing things.

So it should just be more balanced and refined. But still the same base level math.

The math isn't the only thing that matters. If you change the basic components of characters and rewrite the core books (including what I assume is a massive-rewrite of the Monster Manual), it's hard for anyone looking at it, especially newer players, to not see that as a new edition.

 

[Corinnguard]

I wonder if they're not getting the feedback they hoped for. At least on this site, even most of the folks who generally liked what we've seen so far for 6e have sent in negative feedback.

Maybe the Feedback failed it's Constitution saving throw and suffered some necrotic damage?

 

[Corinnguard]

They are releasing two D&D Editions?

OneDnD and 6e?

I even heard about a third one. 5.5. But I am not sure about that.

The third one is Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition. What else could it be?

 

[mellored]

The math isn't the only thing that matters. If you change the basic components of characters and rewrite the core books (including what I assume is a massive-rewrite of the Monster Manual), it's hard for anyone looking at it, especially newer players, to not see that as a new edition.

There is a fair amount of shuffling, like putting the + stat from the race into the background, but so far all the basics components are still there.
Rogues still have sneak attack, cunning action, and uncanny dodge.
Bards still have spells and inspiration.
Rangers still have multi-attack and half the spells.

You could play a 2014 rogue and a playtest rogue side by side in the same campaign and a new player would be able to tell what the difference is.

So I see no need for a new monster manual.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There is a fair amount of shuffling, but so far all the basics components are still there.
Rogues still have sneak attack, cunning action, and uncanny dodge.
Bards still have spells and inspiration.
Rangers still have multi-attack and half the spells.

I see no need for a new monster manual.

The issue with the MM is all the humanoids. They're going to want to re-write a lot of entries.

 

[mellored]

The issue with the MM is all the humanoids. They're going to want to re-write a lot of entries.

Why?
It doesn't matter if monsters get +2 dex +1 con from their race or +2 dex +1 con from their background. The total is the same.

So their damage, defenses, and hit points they have will all be the same.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Why?
It doesn't matter if monsters get +2 dex +1 con from their race or +2 dex +1 con from their background. The total is the same.

So their damage, defenses, and hit points they have will all be the same.

I'm talking about how they're portrayed in the lore write-ups, not the mechanics. We can't have humanoids portrayed as evil anymore, remember? Beyond that, culture is being drastically cut except in setting books, so what are they going to write about? Ohysical characteristics only? We may end up with a lore dearth similar to 4e's original MM.

 

[tetrasodium]

Do you have math to back that up?
Or is it just what you are afraid of?

I agree that 6e PCs will probably be stronger based on an assumption & a flaw in 5e. It's going to be a few days before I'm back home from holiday stuff so this is pulling from memory & some speculation.

5e PCs aren't so much strong as utterly insulated from risking ways that make them godlike.
The vaguely unspecified 1-10 exhaustion is too similar to death at negative ten for there not to be a replacement to death saves or sidebar option at the very least.

Take the bard reaction heal with bardic inspiration & barkskin (THP) HoT.. Without the death save shift stripping away one of the most obnoxious layers of risk insulation these kinds of shifts would just make the already excessive durability into something comically fitting loony tunes better than d&d.

Assuming that holds true PCs need the ability to make strategic decisions with more depth than "nova now?.. Yes or no?" & "save scum rest now yes/no.". With that strategic depth players are suddenly able to work together leveraging reciprocity for force multiplication or to fail as a team when main characters engaging in whatever the heck "protagonist play" near each other in a team game.


There are still a few missing pieces in the gm's toolkit and a lot of blank slates but the potential is there.

 

[Corinnguard]

Unless they take a page from Pathfinder 1st edition, and relegate the cultural lore to accessory books such as the Elves of Golarion, Blood of Angels or Inner Sea Races. The first two are unlikely given the number of races in 5e. But a remake of Races of Faerun for One D&D is still a possibility.

 

[mellored]

I'm talking about how they're portrayed in the lore write-ups, not the mechanics. We can't have humanoids portrayed as evil anymore, remember? Beyond that, culture is being drastically cut except in setting books, so what are they going to write about? Ohysical characteristics only? We may end up with a lore dearth similar to 4e's original MM.

Can't say I pay much attention to the lore. But culture (background) and race are kind of 2 different things now. That allows for more combinations, which is a good thing IMO. I can more easily make goblins wizards and tiefling barbarians.

Still don't see why the monster manual needs to change. The stereotypical sneaky evil goblin works just fine.

But I was more commenting on power creep. Which I just don't see. It looks more balanced, not less.

 

[Blue]

They are releasing two D&D Editions?

OneDnD and 6e?

I even heard about a third one. 5.5. But I am not sure about that.

They're releasing zero D&D editions, since it's all "Just D&D" according to their video. It's just the 50th Anniversay books being published in 2024 that is still the same game. As they say. Again and again. There is no new edition. Really. They promise. Buy books in 2023, it's all one happy edition.

OneD&D is a playtest name, just like D&D Next. It's not an edition.

 

[JEB]

Still don't see why the monster manual needs to change. The stereotypical sneaky evil goblin works just fine.

Enough people disagreed that we got Monsters of the Multiverse, so it's practically a certainty that the Monster Manual will get the same kind of treatment in 1D&D.

 

[Blue]

Enough people disagreed that we got Monsters of the Multiverse, so it's practically a certainty that the Monster Manual will get the same kind of treatment in 1D&D.

Heh, before 5e came out we got 13th Age, a d20 from lead designers of D&D 3.0 and 4e. It's in playtest for a new edition currently. One of the things that they are saying is that individual monster math and design will stay the same, so the their monster books will completely rremain untouched.

On the other hand, the encounter building rules got an overhaul and are being playtested.

 

[mellored]

The vaguely unspecified 1-10 exhaustion is too similar to death at negative ten for there not to be a replacement to death saves or sidebar option at the very least.

I have never seen exhaustion show up in any of my games. But this new version seems much more usable.

Take the bard reaction heal with bardic inspiration

It is harder to waste (or forget), but you get less uses.

& barkskin (THP) HoT..

The old Barkskin was nearly useless. So replacing it didn't change anything.

The new one is effectively Heroism, which any cleric could of cast since 2014. No one thought it was overpowered before.

Without the death save shift stripping away one of the most obnoxious layers of risk insulation these kinds of shifts would just make the already excessive durability into something comically fitting loony tunes better than d&d.

Not sure how that is a new problem. Healing word and Aura of vitality yo-yo has existed.

Though my personal house rule for this play test was going unconscious gave you a level of (new) exhaustion.

Worked really nicely IMO. It provided a slow ramp to more and more dangerous territory and some tense decisions. Do you push on to the final fight with -2, let the rogue the front line for a bit, or is discretion the better part of valor.