Why no WotC M:tG and D&D crossover?

[Halivar]

I do not doubt the greed of any company and I do not think it is above WotC to do some ridiculous tie ins, like a special limited edition card that only comes with the book, or new optional rules for cardplay included in the books, and for serious MtG fans who want that card but dont want a DnD book, thats gonna make them angry.

Very true. Magic fans would cry out against WotC... and then they'd buy the book. Either that, or they'd pony up twice the book's value to buy the card off E-Bay without the book (sort of like how some M:tG players I know will spend $20 buying a "rare" card off E-Bay that's guartanteed to be in a $9 theme deck). They'll whine, and then they'll buy (if you whined about 3.5E, and now have all the corebooks, raise your hand).

As for me, I just want a cool new creature book; and if WotC were just a bit more greedy I would have my way...

...and a nice, Special Limited Edition foil-printed 3/2 Mindflayer (Black+2) with "Tap for brain extraction" in every book! Fun!!!

 

[ichabod]

Beyond mere assertion, give us some reasons why it would be a bad idea. Others have provided some pretty good ideas. Monster books for example. What reason is there to "lose quite a bit of faith in WotC"?

Because that's getting into hardcore branding territory. That is the sort of thing a company does when they want to get into the business of selling a brand, and not a product. Like Nike, which doesn't sell shoes anymore, but rather sells Nike. A shift of focus away from the product is generally detrimental to the product. You can already see some of this in WotC, and I do not think more of it would be an encouraging sign.

 

[The Blue Elf]

In my point of view,there are too many diffrent worlds in Magic the Gathering to play into a basic D&D game, in which would be difficult because of the history, and the events are not the same.

 

[D+1]

This thread is funny compared to posts going around on the Internet during the WotC acquisition of TSR. At the time too many were complaining the would never play D&D again if WotC released a M:tG campaign world. Somehow they perceived it to be a sign of unrestrained greed. I didn't really understand the reasoning at the time. It appears others are now aware of the benefits.

Of course those posts at the time were full of hooey, and there were a few of us out there saying so, but people weren't in the mood to listen. It was very chic to be down on TSR as being CE in alignment (Corporate Evil) and people would reflexively shout down everything new or minutely different as being a sure sign of pure greed and the approaching apocalypse. Ironically the fall of TSR had little to do with greed and a lot to do with stupidity. People still try out that "It's not what I want to buy - therefore I'm being forced to buy it - therefore it's evil and there's no good reason for its existence". They tried it against 3E and again against 3.5 and you'd think people would have figured out by now how silly they sound.

This is the reasoning I don't understand. Why would D&D players feel violated? They benefit by getting more source material. D&D players know that you don't have to buy every supplement that is published.

Well apparantly some of them don't know that or they wouldn't be making such fools of themselves. If you don't need it or want it you don't have to buy it - and its mere existence or popularity with others doesn't hurt you in any way. I can only assume it's people who weren't around from the time TSR fell to listen to that line of thinking debunked repeatedly. Either that or they're just really dumb.

Beyond mere assertion, give us some reasons why it would be a bad idea. Others have provided some pretty good ideas. Monster books for example. What reason is there to "lose quite a bit of faith in WotC"?

None. Previous posts by Those Who Were There have demonstrated that it's been the Magic brand functionaries who've been preventing it or it surely would have happened already. It clearly is a good source to raid for monsters, races, prestige classes, spells, items... an entire setting really.

There is no reason why it COULDN'T be done, and only weak reasons for why it perhaps shouldn't be done. For the same reason that books have to be adapted to be made into movies, the card game would have to suffer adaptation in order to be made into an RPG. E.g. those who are saying you couldn't do it because 'how would you handle "tapping" lands to power your spells?' The obvious answer is you probably wouldn't. You'd adapt spellcasting from the card game to function in a D&D or at least d20 framework. Certain powers, spells, monsters capable of destroying the world or all living creatures, etc. would clearly have to be made to fit the needs of an RPG either by limiting their access to purely epic level campaigns or by making them prophecy or backstory for the setting to keep them in the world, but out of daily campaign-ending roleplaying

I've only played a little Magic and to anyone with an open mind the potential for D&D source material from Magic adaptations is amazing.

 

[D+1]

Ah but there is a very obvious reason why we haven't seen a D&D M:TG crossover yet;
A lot of D&D players turn their noses up at M:TG as being somehow beneath them, and M:TG players' eyes always glass over when you try to explain that D&D books are never packed at random and rarely appreciate in value.

That really is the only obstacle that there should be. I'm not entirely sure why the reaction against M:tG was so strong from many D&D players. I suppose it has something to do with the timing of Magic hitting it big being about the same time that there was a big uprising against TSR as being stupid, greedy, and Corporate Evil. There was definitely a migration away from D&D to other RPG's and a lot of gamers got into Magic in a big way too, leaving D&D behind. Must have broken up more than a few campaigns and the collectibility thing would already have had nerves rubbed the wrong way.

They are just not the same hobby although there really is room for both and either can use the other for inspiration and source material. Just as Magic can be adapted to service D&D, D&D can be as easily adapated to service Magic/CCG's. After all, wasn't there a TSR/WotC CCG called Spellfire? And didn't they try again with Dragon Dice? And is there all that much difference between the new WotC collectible miniatures lines and the structure of Magic as a hobby?

 

[WayneLigon]

I seem to remember the 'big survey' WoTC did indicated that there was little to no crossover between RPGers and card players; ie, RPGers in general simply do not play collectable card games and (more importantly, I think) visa-versa. I would think that crossover would be required for such a product to do well.

Did I dream up that statistic? I can't remember where the results were posted. Does anyone thing the result (assuming I remember it correctly) still holds?

 

[Pants]

I seem to remember the 'big survey' WoTC did indicated that there was little to no crossover between RPGers and card players; ie, RPGers in general simply do not play collectable card games and (more importantly, I think) visa-versa. I would think that crossover would be required for such a product to do well.

Did I dream up that statistic? I can't remember where the results were posted. Does anyone thing the result (assuming I remember it correctly) still holds?

Aye, but as thie thread has shown, even those who have no interest in the card game itself are still interested in the world and creatures of M:tG.

 

[LGodamus]

Most of the RPers around here play magic, and a few other collectible card games. Heck I am looked at like a weirdo cause I dont play magic, only RP games. So, around here at least, there definately is some crossover betwixt the 2 groups.

 

[Halivar]

I seem to remember the 'big survey' WoTC did indicated that there was little to no crossover between RPGers and card players; ie, RPGers in general simply do not play collectable card games and (more importantly, I think) visa-versa. I would think that crossover would be required for such a product to do well.

Sounds like a poll request.

- I play Magic, and am interested in a M:tG/D&D crossover.
- I do not play Magic, and am interested in a M:tG/D&D crossover.
- I play Magic, and am not interested in a M:tG/D&D crossover.
- I do not play Magic, and am not interested in a M:tG/D&D crossover.

It would be interesting to see the results...

 

[Gez]

It would be interesting to see the results...

You'll have to remember that this poll would not be very helpful.

The only way I think they could get viable data from such a poll would be this way:

Place the poll in shops. If possible, compel the people who buy one game or the other to answer it. I don't know how WotC shops work (I know they have some), but if they have something akin to fidelity cards or another way of rewarding prodigal customers, there could be a minor bonus in exchange for filling the poll -- and aditionnally, this would help making sure people vote only once.