Why no WOTC support for Greyhawk?

[Mokona]

If an awesome Greyhawk Campaign Setting released it might succeed and if so everyone would demand support products like Forgotten Realms and Eberron receive. In that case either Forgotten Realms or Eberron products would dry up. Then Forgotten Realms or Eberron fans would be mad. If it's Eberron then WotC wasted the big money they gave to Keith Baker and if it's Forgotten Realms that gets cut the novels no longer have RPG support.

Since Eberron is newer I suspect Forgotten Realms would get axed. If you hate Forgotten Realms fight for Greyhawk; it's the best way to kill FR.

Go Greyhawk!

 

[jokamachi]

I trust that the WotC marketing arm has more comprehensive data than the two or three groups you've talked to.

If you are so sure, pony up the cash to buy the license yourself, and print new material.

And speaking of those responses...

Yes, let's trust the marketing arm to always give us what we want.

You know, if I could afford the license, I most certainly WOULD buy it, but the fact that Wotc has said that they're hanging on to it (aka 'not for sale') makes that a bit problematic.

But that's o.k., I suspect Eberron will end up being the core setting for 4e and, when that happens, Greyhawk will be pardoned from the hell of random noun generation.

Something to look forward to.

 

[Erik Mona]

I trust that the WotC marketing arm has more comprehensive data than the two or three groups you've talked to.

If you are so sure, pony up the cash to buy the license yourself, and print new material.

This is impossible, since the license is not available.

--Erik

 

[Vigwyn the Unruly]

I think a nice hardcover would be cool. I've never bought anything Greyhawk-specific at all. I even treat the Greyhawk stuff in Dungeon as generic (and usually convert it to FR). But I would definitely by a hardcover if it was the same quality as the FRCS.

That being said, I would like it to end there. I don't want Greyhawk to be as fleshed out FR, with all of its region books, etc. I like the fact that it's pretty generic. That way, we can all have our own personal Greyhawk.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I guess I was coming from the angle that Greyhawk is supposed to be the *default* setting for 3.x. Yet the 3.0 Adventure Path modules contained little if any Greyhawk Specific material. So the 3.0 modules etc weren't really set in Greyhawk, but the Greyhawk *lite* setting for 3.x as some have termed it.

The novels were this way too. Greyhawk has more than enough lands to set stuff in, didn't see a need to make up new stuff.

 

[Vocenoctum]

Also, to interject, I thought the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer was very well done and interesting.

The little cheap Gazeteer was underwhelming.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

I would answer the "why no support?" question with the "What support do you want to see that isn't already out there?" question.

I believe I can answer that question. What they want is to see Greyhawk material on a GAME STORE SHELF. If they have to go LOOKING for it rather than there being a concerted effort to not just make it available but to actively amass NEW Greyhawk players and compete with other world settings that any given DM has to choose from. IMO, it doesn't matter how much Living Greyhawk material there is - nobody knows or CARES about what's there, which is why the question of Greyhawk support regularly comes up. But, perhaps contradictorily, they DO still have an interest in seeing and playing a Greyhawk campaign. It's just that they aren't seeing the same kind of support for Greyhawk that they would EXPECT to see in the greater marketplace as they would any other setting.

Iit comes down to that WotC has relenquished responsibility for supporting Greyhawk, and the parties that DO bear responsibility for supporting Greyhawk, while they may be running a fine world for use under the auspices of Living Greyhawk, are not PROMOTING the setting as a viable competitor in the retail marketplace. It doesn't really matter WHY that isn't taking place, only that it is. It doesn't matter what the quality of the material that LG makes available actually is, because where people want to see it isn't on the web. They want to see products like a Greyhawk hardcover similar to the FRCS, and on a store shelf next to additional settings like Kalamar, Eberron, Freeport, etc.

 

[JohnRTroy]

Part of the problem with supporting Greyhawk is that the fan base was factionalized from TSR's actions in the late 1980s.

Forgotten Realms has the blessing and continued participation of its creator. Most other game worlds were created by committee, with no one person having the key leadership role, with perhaps the exception of Weiss and Hickman when it comes to Dragonlance. Even Eberron has it's creator actively involved.

But Greyhawk suffered from Gary's departure. And also suffered because TSR decided to put an "experimental" stamp on the world. Something GH has never recovered from. It started out with crap like the Rose Estes novels and the "joke Castle Greyhawk". Then came "Greyhawk Wars"--designed to shake things up. Afterwards, other writers started to treat it with some respect, but the damage had been done. And some people even disagree on who should be a factor in keeping the game system alive.

Wizards obviously looked at the fact that GH names were used in spells, etc, as well as the lack of success of GH products compared to the other lines, and decided to make the campaign more generic. Because of the factionalization of the line, and the fact that 3e changed some of the rules for characters as well, GH became "generic D&D world". I think Greyhawk's weakness and factionalization of its fan base made this the most palitable decision--Realms and Lance had a lot of novels and more published material that they didn't want to contradict, it would be too much work to create a generic world, and the other worlds had specific quirks that weren't "generic D&D fantasy".

I don't think there will ever be a true consolidation of the GH base. Gary's Castle Zagyg, if the project can ever get completed, will likely satisfy those looking for the legendary dungeon adventure, but he is unlikely to ever return to GH development since he hates the current D&D incarnation. Writer Carl Sargent, like Roger Moore, appears to have retired from gaming. Erik does his best, but he is limited by what he can do officially.

Personally, as a publisher, I wouldn't want to touch this world with a 10-foot pole, because of all this controvesy.

 

[Storm Raven]

I guess I was coming from the angle that Greyhawk is supposed to be the *default* setting for 3.x. Yet the 3.0 Adventure Path modules contained little if any Greyhawk Specific material.

But that's just the nature of a default - adding specific material to the books would defeat the purpose. A "default" is what is used when nothing else is specified. Nothing else was specified for the Adventure Path modules, hence, they "default" to greyhawk, using the minimalist material put forward for the Greyhawk setting contained in the core books as the basis for the bac kground, to the extent needed.

I am always amazed at people who didn't understand that when WotC made Greyhawk the "default" setting for 3e/3.5e that that meant there would be virtually no 'specific" Greyhawk material coming out. It, almost by necessity, meant that Greyhawk would get nothing but "generic" support. Anyone who didn't see that coming was just deluding themselves.