Why Not a 4th Book?

[Varianor Abroad]

If they imported the zone mechanic from Iron Heroes (which they won't) or created something similar and IP (which they might), that could include traps. That would be a reasonable book. However, it would have to sell to more than DMs to make it economically feasible for Wizards I would think.

 

[Jhaelen]

I mean if they can have umpteen billion monster books, why not more traps?

Well, I hardly ever use traps but I use monsters all the time. So, naturally I am very interested in monster manuals and not at all in trap manuals.

Of course part of the reason is that I dislike the implementation of traps in 3E. It's possible (though unlikely) that 4E does a better job.

Trap encounters as described in Dungeonscape are slightly more interesting but still inferior to monster encounters.
For me the problem with traps is that they are by their very nature one-trick ponies. They are constructed to do a single thing and that's it. Monsters can adapt their tactics to the circumstances, traps can't.

 

[Woas]

Maybe if they moved the sections on traps and terrain to the MM instead of an odd place in the DMG... kind of combined it all into a "Encounter Manual".

 

[Celebrim]

Such a book would need to be much broader than merely a 'book of traps'. Traps are fairly narrow and are perhaps even more personal than monsters.

I would buy a well thought out 'Book of environmental hazards' which dealt with starvation, dehydration, malnutrition, wind as a hazard, heat exposure and its remedies, cold exposure and its remedies, forced marches, sleep deprivation, hazardous plants, molds, slimes, diseases, infections, toxins, paracites, fine vermin, falling, drowning, sufficating, micro-gravity exposure, food poisoning, getting lost, pressure sickness, the bends, crushed by falling objects, rock slides avalanches, breaking through ice, volcanos, earthquakes, hazardous waves, currents and tides, navigation hazards, hazerdous radiance, quicksand, naturally occuring arcane hazards, etc.

The core rules for environmental hazards could use reexamining and list of natural/dugeon hazards need large expanding from just yellow mold/green slime. You could throw in some variant vermin and vermin swarms for good measure.

Something like the environmental books of 3.5 only without the narrow focus and large amounts of useless fluff and material that filled up so many later 3.5 books. Give me something more simulationist so that I can use the same rules for PC's of every level. Give me a toolbox that is heavy on the crunch, and I'll supply the fluff.

 

[Jhaelen]

Such a book would need to be much broader than merely a 'book of traps'. Traps are fairly narrow and are perhaps even more personal than monsters.

I would buy a well thought out 'Book of environmental hazards'[snip]

Yes, that would indeed be something I'd buy.

Translating hazards into interesting mechanics to create memorable encounters is the one thing I liked about the 3E environmental books. Unfortunately it was such a small part of those books I didn't consider any of them worth buying.

It would really be great if they were to release a single book covering these aspects for a variety of terrains/climates. Even so, I wouldn't consider such a book to be a fourth 'Core' rule book - just an excellent supplement.

 

[Scribble]

Such a book would need to be much broader than merely a 'book of traps'. Traps are fairly narrow and are perhaps even more personal than monsters.

Thats pretty much along the lines of what I meant.

One book for Characters

One Book for DM advice?

One Book for Monsters

One Book for Other hazards and such. (be they traps or environmental etc...)

and in the darkness bind- err...

 

[Celebrim]

Unfortunately it was such a small part of those books I didn't consider any of them worth buying.

I felt the same way about everything WotC published for 3.5. I would have gotten good use of about 5% of the book at best. I'm not going to spend $30 for that.

The market seems to be vindicating my position. At the rate prices for the WotC 3.5 books are falling, I'll be able to pick up any 10 of them for $1.50 each if I really wanted them (and I'm not sure they are worth the space they'd take up on my shelves). So, it seems that alot of people are deciding that the books don't have much value for them either.

Instead of publishing anything I would buy though, WotC seems dedicated on producing even fluffier, lighter weight, glossier, less comprehensive products in the future.

 

[Scribble]

I felt the same way about everything WotC published for 3.5. I would have gotten good use of about 5% of the book at best. I'm not going to spend $30 for that.

The market seems to be vindicating my position. At the rate prices for the WotC 3.5 books are falling, I'll be able to pick up any 10 of them for $1.50 each if I really wanted them (and I'm not sure they are worth the space they'd take up on my shelves). So, it seems that alot of people are deciding that the books don't have much value for them either.

Instead of publishing anything I would buy though, WotC seems dedicated on producing even fluffier, lighter weight, glossier, less comprehensive products in the future.

I've said it before, but my problem has never been with the "fluff."

It's with the fact that for 95% of the time, WOTC did nothing but put out endless books of the same stuff just painted differently. More feats... More PRCs... But nothihng substantially different. Until the end when they were test running for 4e...


I'd like to see more new options and ideas not based one or two elements already created.

But thats a topic for something else.

 

[Li Shenron]

They might very well be able to in the future.

Tough I suspect the last "encounter book", the 3.0 Book of Challenges, didn't do very well or we'd have seen more of them.

I think it was perhaps because the Book of Challenges was designed with ready encounters instead of being a toolbox.

If you write ready encounters, you meet the cheers of some DMs who want to immediately use the book, except that they will use it only a couple of times. They will use only the encounters which are exactly at the level they need, and only those who they really like, otherwise they'll just prefer to write their own encounters.

If you write a toolbox, like a book that has a collection of traps, a large list of new hazards, a large array of interesting locales with points of interests (like spots to place traps or triggers), and some chapters with special effects and things like riddles, non-transportable devices (stuff that slides, swirls, rotates, raises, twists, etc. and can move either objects or characters around the environment and provide both danger and help), then you have a book full of things that the DM can put together in creative ways to create encounters of ANY levels (because the encounter will still depend mostly on the creatures the DM will choose to put against the PCs, and because DCs for traps et al can easily be adjusted by the DM).

I'm sure that such a book could easily reach 300 pages of goodness, and have a much more useful and long-lasting life in the hands of a DM.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Thats pretty much along the lines of what I meant.

One book for Characters

One Book for DM advice?

One Book for Monsters

One Book for Other hazards and such. (be they traps or environmental etc...)

and in the darkness bind- err...

No, that will never work. They tried a Monster Manual as Binder back in 2nd edtion (Monsterous Compendium). While a good idea in theory, allowing a DM to remove pages relevant to the monster they wanted to run, in practice, people just lost pages.

So, no that cannot work at all.

(Oh, and I see what you did there).

END COMMUNICATION