Why not combine the Fighter and Monk Classes?

[TrippyHippy]

The Fighter seems to get some criticism over the years for being a bit boring. The Monk takes some criticism for being a bit thematically (Oriental style) themed in contrast to the other Classes.

How about addressing both these concerns by adapting some of the aspects of the Monk Class with those of the Fighter. After all, the Monk is basically just a pure, trained Fighter, with mystical abilities.

I'm saying, remove some of the mystical baggage of the Monk (along with the major restrictions) but open up the manner in which they have combat styles and abilities (as special effects) to be integrated into the broader, more generic Fighter Class. With customisation (and Themes) you could even designate your Fighter as being a monastic, unarmed specialist.....which would make the Monk Class redundant if done well.

 

[Tovec]

Why not combine the Rogue and Wizard Classes?

The Rogue seems to get some criticism over the years for being a bit weak when compared to the traditional blasting capacity of wizards. The Wizard takes some criticism for being a bit mechanically weak when it comes to skills and specialization themed in contrast to the other Classes.

How about addressing both these concerns by adapting some of the aspects of the Wizard Class with those of the Rogue. After all, the Wizard is basically just a pure supernatural and skillful class with magical abilities.

I'm saying, remove some of the magical baggage of the Wizard (along with the major restrictions) but open up the manner in which they have combat styles and abilities (as special effects) to be integrated into the broader, more generic Rogue Class. With customization (and Themes) you could even designate your Rogue as being a arcanist or summoning specialist.....which would make the Wizard Class redundant if done well.


That is why. Put another way, the mechanics should be dissimilar enough between classes as to require a new class. The flavour should be similarly dissimilar enough to WARRENT the distinction. You should WANT different classes instead of just new themes for an existing class. A monk is not solely defined by its abilities, anymore than a rogue is solely defined by its skills.

 

[JamesonCourage]

The Monk, to me, if far more than just "hits with his fists", even if that's important to the class. All those "worthless" abilities it has (slow fall, talking to any living creature, etc.) are important to the class, in my opinion. I'd be pretty sorely disappointed if it was basically defined by punchy-kicky, instead.

But, I'll also be disappointed if the Paladin is not restricted to only Lawful Good, and is a follower of a god rather than a devoted follower of Good. So I might be in the minority. As always, play what you like

 

[amerigoV]

We can rename the class to "Fonk"

 

[Minigiant]

But if you combine the Fighter and the Monk but remove the mysticism and special abilities, then you have not combined the classes at all.

You just made a fighter with increase unarmed damage.

EDIT:Yes, the Monk and the Fighter are similar. They both are trained warriors who are most likely formally trained. This different from the Barbarian who is a raw warrior reliant of pure physical ability, mental chaos, and emotion.

The main difference is what they train to be.

The fighter trains to be a master of martial combat.
The monk trains to be a master of his or her body, mind and soul.
Although they both training in combat and self, they diverge quickly. The monk is those mystical class features, if you remove the then yes there is no point for a monk class.

 

[TrippyHippy]

That is why. Put another way, the mechanics should be dissimilar enough between classes as to require a new class. The flavour should be similarly dissimilar enough to WARRENT the distinction. You should WANT different classes instead of just new themes for an existing class. A monk is not solely defined by its abilities, anymore than a rogue is solely defined by its skills.

It's a bad analogy, largely because the Rogue and Wizard archetypes are so distinct, and also because there hasn't ever been this type of criticism laid at them. The Monk is a 'fighting man' in the purest sense, while the notion of combat styles and 'martial arts' is the raisin d'être of a Fighter Class. The two classes are fundamentally comparable, and I'd argue comparable as one Class.

 

[JamesonCourage]

I very, very disagree. So very. Much. And stuff.

But that's outlined above, and Minigiant touched on it, too. The Monk isn't a "fighting man" to me. He's just not. I get that you don't agree, but what about people like us, who see the Monk as defined by his mystical abilities, too?

 

[Dice4Hire]

The Fighter seems to get some criticism over the years for being a bit boring. The Monk takes some criticism for being a bit thematically (Oriental style) themed in contrast to the other Classes.

How about addressing both these concerns by adapting some of the aspects of the Monk Class with those of the Fighter. After all, the Monk is basically just a pure, trained Fighter, with mystical abilities.

I'm saying, remove some of the mystical baggage of the Monk (along with the major restrictions) but open up the manner in which they have combat styles and abilities (as special effects) to be integrated into the broader, more generic Fighter Class. With customisation (and Themes) you could even designate your Fighter as being a monastic, unarmed specialist.....which would make the Monk Class redundant if done well.

Yes, this is a good idea. The monk and Fighter should be similar thematically, just one uses weapons and one does not. I fail to see why there has always been such a huge divide between the two.

Oh, and I set fire to Tovec's strawman.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I very, very disagree. So very. Much. And stuff.

But that's outlined above, and Minigiant touched on it, too. The Monk isn't a "fighting man" to me. He's just not. I get that you don't agree, but what about people like us, who see the Monk as defined by his mystical abilities, too?

Well, in every version of D&D thus far, EVERY class has been a fighting man, to use the phrase above.

 

[Mattachine]

I love the "mystical baggage" of the monk.

I could see trying to rework the monk so it could have a wider range of archetypes: wuxia, shamanistic, religious fighting order, etc.