Why NOT DDi?

[klofft]

This has been an awesome bunch of replies - please continue.

I suspect I've learned what I wanted to learn. As stupid as it sounds, I wanted to know if I was going to be the only kid who wasn't in the club if I didn't use the DDi. I suspect my players will want to use it...but I do like books.

Some particular responses:

[MENTION=807]fba827[/MENTION]: I too spend too much time with a computer already. I also have far more time to read gaming books than I do sitting at the table actually playing.

[MENTION=19675]Dannyalcatraz[/MENTION]: This was my exact feeling about the money also. The only counterpoint that I think is fair to offer is that, though I too have my original AD&D books, I haven't looked at one in 25 years.

[MENTION=16212]wedgeski[/MENTION]: Downloadable art from a gallery is not nearly as evocative to me as art while reading a book. I happen to think that most of the art in 4e provides a feel for the game that distinguishes it well from 3e.

[MENTION=6679380]wlmartin[/MENTION]: I think you and I see eye-to-eye on a number of things, based on other posts of yours that I've read.

[MENTION=22424]delericho[/MENTION]: You make a lot of valid points. Thanks for that. I decided to check out some stuff. My 3.5 collection (not counting Dragonlance, Kalamar, or Pathfinder) was 95 books. In our last campaign, we regularly used 38. But I had read all of them cover to cover. My present list for 4e books is 38 total (I excluded the new DM kit and the Advanced Players Guide or whatever its called).

 

[ExploderWizard]

What are some examples of things that are not in DDi?

I don't know if things have changed with Essentials but often DDI will have the crunch for individual components that you can add to a character but not the rules that explain the rules for implementing them. For example if you wanted a familiar for your wizard, all the different familliars would be in the database but the rules that govern familiars was in the Arcane Power book.

 

[Locutus Zero]

I like the Char Builder because each player builds his character under the same account, and I can go in and reference them as needed. I can answer questions like "Who still only has a +1 weapon?".

 

[DEFCON 1]

The big question to ask yourself with regards to the idea of not owning physical books... is whether you honestly think you'll ever have the need/desire to play 4th edition in 5 or more years time, where you'll actually need the books? Or more importantly... whether you'll need the books in 5+ years and don't think you'll actually be able to buy used copies of them cheaply from Amazon if/when you do need them. Most game stores all have copies of old games available for purchase... pretty much because nobody actually ever wants these things anymore.

I tossed out my 2nd edition AD&D books decades ago... but can go onto Amazon right now and get a Player's Handbook for $3.00. So the idea for *me* that I need to have physical books in my possession at this point in time is not necessary at all. I could toss out my 4E books right now and feel confident that in 8 years from now that if I wanted to play it again... I'd be able to get any iteration of the 4E game for cheap.

So don't buy the all books just to have them... especially if you don't think you'll use them. Pick up a Rules Compendium, maybe one of the Heroes books just to give you explanations on how character design is supposed to work... then spring for a couple months of DDI... confident in the knowledge that if you do want a book some many months/years into the future... you'll find plenty of cheap used copies on Amazon without problems.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

This was my exact feeling about the money also. The only counterpoint that I think is fair to offer is that, though I too have my original AD&D books, I haven't looked at one in 25 years.

I've used mine in game as recently as last year, and used them as reference material just 2 weeks ago.

As for other reasons besides the $$$, I share many with the other posters so far (esp. too much computer time).

 

[Torgaard]

After a nearly 20 year hiatus from D&D, I recently returned to the game (upon discovering the Fantasy Ground VTT, me n' the old group just HAD to try it) and dove head-first into 4E.

Initially, I just started buyin' up books. Kind of a mistake, but I don't really regret it (I just kinda like havin' the books). In hindsight, I can't help but wonder if I only needed two things:

• The Player's Handbook
• DDi

The rest is mostly fluff. I probably would've bought the Dungeon Master's Guide's as well, but it would've been with the knowledge that they contain very little in the way of actual rules to the game, but instead offer a dearth of helpful tips and ideas on how to be a good DM. Well, actually the stuff on Skill Challenges was extremely helpful so I guess I would definitely have snagged the DMG for that.

And I think an important point needs to be made to the OP about DDi + not getting any of the books. Something that a couple posts got close to spelling out, but maybe didn't quite nail it down as well as I'd like. And that's this: DDi, and mostly notably The Compendium, does not contain a huge amount of the meat of the books. As someone else noted; the Compendium is just a database. And when we talk about a rules reference and DDi, the Compendium is pretty much what we're talkin' about. It (mostly) only has Powers, Monsters, Items, etc. So you could look up a "Kobold Skirmisher" for example, and get its monster card if you will (stats, etc), but you won't get the writeup in the Monster Manual about Kobolds. Possibly not a big deal for some, but I personally like to read up on stuff like that so I know how the critter's gonna react. I think back to all those "Ecology of the..." articles in Dragon magazine (do they still do those?). So you'll get the stats on just about everything with the Compendium, but that's pretty much all you'll get; the stats.

Though it should be noted that the Compendium does writeup alot of useful and detailed information on some things; notably Classes and some of the compartmentalized rules that 4E does so well (ie things like "Slowed" or "Mounted Combat" or "Surprise Round" or whatever), but it won't have all the glue that holds it together. You won't have it all pieced together so it makes sense.

What makes DDi a no brainer for me is:

• The Compendium - Used as a supplement. Man, you will get this thing out of my cold, dead hands (well, technically off my cold dead 2nd monitor while I have Fantasy Grounds on the other one). It is INSANELY, RIDICULOUSLY, HUGELY (did I emphasize that enough) useful for almost instantly looking something up. Somebody asks me if a "Shift" provokes an "Opportunity Attack", I can bring it up in about 10 seconds.
• Character Builder - Ya, it's a little clunky but man it is soooooo deep. You're cross referenced to pretty much everything that's every come out in a book or article, and you'd never know it from lookin' at it. Making a "Wizard"? Well, here's every Power listed in every book and every Dragon/Dungeon article right there in the list; just picke what ya want.
• Dragon and Dungeon Magazines - Man, this stuff gets dismissed way too often (imo). I found these articles to be incredibly useful. There is a huge amount of information on the Forgotten Realms (world I use) in those articles, and a crapload more. And it just keeps growin'. It's crazy. If anything; there's so much information in those articles that it's hard to get a handle on it all.

Sorry, kinda got to rambling there.

Nutshell: DDi is a must have (for me). The Compendium, the Character Builder, the articles, and all the other bells and whistles amount to a fairly staggering amount of information. And it's all just a search away.

 

[wlmartin]

@ Torgaard

I agree - The PHB is pretty much the only thing you NEED but if you want to learn the ins and outs of the game, the DM guide (even if you arent a DM), the Campaign Guides, the Class Guides... they are all valuable.

I love the idea of DDI and no doubt an iphone app is pending! But it takes the tabletop concepts away from us. A stack of corebooks is almost like a fashion accessory for some D&Ders. Someone the other day suggested I buy an automatic die roller instead of buying some cheap dice from eBay, I scoffed at him - Automatic Die Roller??

I watched a YouTube video of Microsofts New(ish) Technology SURFACE and some people were using it to play D&D. Sure, it looked a little cool but it seemed wrong! (but cool!)

DDI is a good tool, an extra arm to your repoitore but once you start substituting corebooks for online references it just feels ... icky!

 

[Dice4Hire]

I have played D&D extensively since it came out and have seen zero need for DDI.

If I need things from the compendium, I can either
A) remember them
B) look them up
C) go with what feels right at the moment

If I want to make a monster I simply adjust an existing one. There are so many good monsters out there, I see no need to make one from scratch. Plus it does not even really work, from what I have heard.

If I want to make a character I do so, with pen and paper. I do not need to look though hundreds of pull-down menus, or read endless lists of feat names.

Also, when I do make a character once, I do not have to worry about the machine updating it for me after a set of errata. I can decide what changes I want in my ame.

Basically, I am a free man who can do D&D myself.

 

[Jacob Marley]

So I have two questions:
1) Most importantly, if you too play 4th and don't use DDi, why?
2) How much of DDi is downloadable vs. online only? If a lot of it can be DL'd, I don't mind keeping PDFs and the like.

I was a subscriber, initially, but let my subscription lapse after the first year. I only get to play 4th Edition maybe 2-3 times a year (if that) making the cost hard to justify.

 

[mudlock]

I want to point this out, because I didn't know until someone pointed it out to me, but you can use the online compendium as an index even if you're not a subscriber.

This is great, because I'm not a subscriber, and I was trying to find the rules for a certain ritual, but couldn't remember which book it was in (there are a couple rituals in just about every book (baring martial power and MP2 (don't even talk to me about martial practices))). The compendium was able to tell me which book to get off my shelf. For zero dollars a month, that's SO worth the price!

Second, don't let the "too much errata! You need DDi just to keep up!" cries scare you in to it either. 95% of the errata are obvious things (for instance: add the healing keyword to a power that heals; duh) that you wouldn't even notice were changed. I wish WotC would provide a separate list of the remaining 5% (the "critical" errata, like when stealth or Magic Missile or Come and Get It or Veteran's Armor had their mechanics changed) but either way, the errata is always free.

And finally, it is entirely possible to make a character without the help of the character builder. Personally, I prefer it, although I seem to be in the minority these days.