Why not? Stats above 25-Balanced?

Anony Mouse

First Post
With the birth of d&d 3.0 i was elated to see that wotc created a system that could handle stats beyond 25. nnot only that but they also incorporatd level based stat bonuses! this made me very happy...for a while. However i often feel that i may be a stat purist in that i feel like average and below-average stats should add flavor to a character. i feel it would be much easier to expect Naturally rolled stats, if the levelbased bonuses were aquired more often. I mean 1 point every four levels is pretty weak. It seems that maybe it would be more balanced if each bonus was instead a +2 (since that is the increment to increase the mod). Having played games like Rifts where your stats continually grow until you are godlike in some ways, i would like to see a 1 point bonuse at every level. As always i dont want to unbalance my campaign but i do think it would be more fun for character developement. I get so tired of the suicidal look on players faces when they roll their stats and turn to me "Not even an 18 Arghh!" or "i have two 9s?? Of course one can go in charisma but what will i do with the otherone??"

this idea is still brewing in my head... ill post more later.

Also brewing: How can i incorprate feats at every level? Minor and Major feats (So many weaker feat are passed over after all)
 

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Have you looked at the Conan RPG? I don't have it, but I know that because of the lower magic in the setting, characters get stat bonuses more often. Every couple of levels, they get a +1 to a stat and then 3 or 4 times in 20 levels they get +1 to all stats.

Starman
 


Conan RPG

Conan RPG gives a character the standard +1 to the ability of your choice every 4 levels. To compensate for being a low magic setting, it also gives a character a +1 to each ability score at 6th level and every 4 levels thereafter.
 

Sounds to me like you just need a more generous method of rolling stats.
Such as roll 4d6 take the best 3, or roldl 4d6 (best 3) 7 times, keep the best 6.

Majere
 

Considering the possibility of rolling even one 18, your players should get used to not having any.

4d6 take the best 3 was always our standard roll-up technique, which generally produced above-average characters. And a reasonable number of 18s.

Nowadays, we have moved on to 75/76 points, 1 point per characteristic point (so an 18 costs 18 points). This tends to produce characters with one or more 18s, which I see as OK for a Heroic Game. One of our DMs disagrees and uses the Standard Point-Buy system using 32 points.
The difference between the 2 has seemed to be about 2 characteristic points.

Maybe have everyone try using a different system and discuss the results. You'll soon reach a concensus.
 

one time, we coudn't find the point-buy mechanic, so we game up with what we thougth was close. (we were off by 2 points).

We started at 10. Buying up to 16 cost 6 point, 18 was another 4, for a total of 10.

We were given 26 points.

For everyone playing, that was 2 18s, a 16, and 3 10s.

Coupled with some vow feats and a too-leniant GM, We were ridiculously overpowered.

Find what works for you. That point buy I woudn't do again.
 

My Current Campaign

My current group consists of heavy power gamers that want heroic, well heroic everything. In the past Ive always used stats rolled 4d6 drop the lowest and usually roll maybe three sets and let them choose which set they use. Usually rerolling ones. That was in the past and works well enough.

Personally I like the 75 point system with a simple one for one basis. It allows my characters to come to the first session with a definite idea of how they are gonna build their character. It also offer equality among players. (With rolled stats, someone is always going to come out ahead, and someone behind as is always the case in chance ;) ) I feel that this equality helps balance more the the realism of randomness does and thus makes for a more fun game.

My group didnt want to use this method though, counting on the chance that they would roll awesome scores. (Apparently their last DM would let them roll sets of stats all day long until they rolled that crazy set of epic stats) So I had them roll the straight 3d6 for 3 groups of stats. Not rerolling ones. Then I allowed them to add 6 points in any way the saw fit.

Now, I thought they would want to round out their stats some, but the fighter saw the oppurtunity for a 21 str and but all the points in that. the rest pretty much followed suit, leaving myt group with one stat 20+ and the rest average, very average :\ This group is always very good at using the rules to their advantage and i expected i had unbalanced the game severely. However they were very excited about their exceptional characters so we continued with some adventures.

A couple adventures later what i realized was that these epic stats only helped marginally. And the characters all had weaknesses which would come into play regularly. Balance had NOT been significantly affected as i had thought.

However, i do fell that balance _is_ significantly affected when i let them roll that supersafe method with rerolled ones or letting them keep rolling sets of stats until they get multiple high scores. when a character has all +modifiers, then they became so well rounded that they are exceptional at any situation.

This whole experience was very haphazard and riddled with mistakes that i made in an effort to save game balance and let them have fun. however i think it did serve to show me that high stats help, but the difference between 18 and 20 is just a +1. The PC with straight 14s would have been much more effective.. but shh dont tell them i said that :confused:

Im not so concerned with what method i allow them to roll up stats. i just wonder how often scores above 20 have unbalanced the campaign and likewise how often scores below 10 have unbalanced it.

This is what lead me to the idea of allowing 1 ability point at each level, AS LONG AS THE BEGINNING STATS WERE NOT ALL HIGH (ie not rerolling ones or dropping dice) then the characters will be more concerned with rounding their stats out. this still poses some problems and i could really use the view points of some dms.

my powergamers rarely give any good advice regarding rules adjudication: they are rarely objective and have only experience with one montyhaul dm for a year or so when 3.0 came out. I have played for many years but i havent played since 3.0 came out. So we both come to the table with preconceived ideas of how the game should be played and not much experience with game balance. Hopefully these boards can help me be better at integrating my experience with the new rules and understanding how they are balanced by other dms. :D

I appreciate your help,
Anony the Mouse
 

Stats...

Well ,in our party most of the pc's have at least one stat beyond 30,and most above 16-18....they are fairly powerfull but not unbalancing....that's because our DM has given stats to NPC...really hard work but creating everything you're going to play balances everything....Taking MM MM2 MM3 ready made monsters is something it's going to unbalance a game...And ofcourse stat's won't make one play smarter...even with 38 INT if you can't think smthng you won't think it :)
 

Like ShorelisNailo said, stat is what you make of it.

I had a player who roll is first character whit a 4, he decide to keep it and put it in to STR. He was one of the most interesting mage I ever saw.
 

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