why orc pc?

[funkysnunkulator]

the smartest dm's will REQUIRE players to periodically play evil pc's.

what madness it this? how dare funkysnunkulator make such proclaimation?

easy. players and dm's both forget "evil creatures" are evil. they get treated as "standing around waiting for heroic pc's to come collect thier stuff".

so perhaps a dm doesn't understand evil. ok. fine. wanna learn? watch your players/characters be evil. ever wonder how to minmax your enemies? ever wonder the best tactics? watch your players. they will do all the work for you.

then they can't complain when the bad guys hand the good guys thier heads on a platter. cause the players did it first.

also players.... if you are playing evil characters and the adventures are running almost exactly like your good characters adventures.... your good characters have probably been evil all along.

 

[Desdichado]

the smartest dm's will REQUIRE players to periodically play evil pc's.

what madness it this? how dare funkysnunkulator make such proclaimation?

easy. players and dm's both forget "evil creatures" are evil. they get treated as "standing around waiting for heroic pc's to come collect thier stuff".

Actually, I'd argue that the smartest DM's don't ever make such an assumption and have their NPC's standing around waiting to be slaughtered. I've never thought of doing that, even though I've never required players to periodically play evil PCs.

 

[funkysnunkulator]

Actually, I'd argue that the smartest DM's don't ever make such an assumption and have their NPC's standing around waiting to be slaughtered. I've never thought of doing that, even though I've never required players to periodically play evil PCs.

touche!!!

was hoping someone would catch that!!

no, there are a tonne of really good dm's out there. but when meeting players and dm's from other groups, it is clear that many dm's just don't think a lot of things through.

caveat: it is thier game, thier way.

but, the method mentioned before is a good way for "balance" to be achieved. anytime a monster is unbalanced or a class is unbalanced or an encounter is unbalanced or an adventure is unbalanced... it is usually because these things have not been through "trial by fire". gametesting is good, but gametesters rarely if ever play both sides of the equation.

for example: a prestige class comes along. everyone and thier uncle cries "broken" "stupid" "unbalanced".... well, have them generate characters using said prestige class. now play them in an adventure or scenario. ok. perhaps they do seem powerful. fine. now have those same players play bad guys and generate characters to mess with the new prestige class. players have a way of finding the "gaps in the armor". in many cases, a prestige class or monster or spell or whatever ceases being quite so fearsome when dealt with in this way.

playing both good and evil (or lawful and chaotic) allows players and dm's to evaluate thier own understanding of these concepts (as they relate to the game). if a player plays a good guy and a bad guy the same way, then it is likely that player really doesn't understand the ramifications of good and evil in the game.

back to the point of the thread, a lot of players want to play orc or drow or pixies or flumphs or whatever. they want something differnet. unique. however, they want thier drow to be redeemed or thier orcs pennitent. why? because the players also want to play good guys. smash the evil, take it's stuff. simple enough.

however unique characterization predecates unique gameplay. players sometime seem to forget that uniqueness comes more from characterization than from stats. many will choose a race or species and minmax for power sake. fine. many though, have a character in mind they want to play, so our job as dm is to help them find the best way to bring that character to life.

and lastly... sometimes.... only an orc will do.... hahahaha!!

 

[Desdichado]

I think a better requirement is that D&D groups should branch out and run short little campaigns using other systems and settings that have completely different assumptions about how things work from time to time. You don't quite come back to D&D exactly the same after you've been playing Call of Cthulhu or WFRP for instance.

In fact, I've been accused of turning every game I run, regardless of what it starts out as, into Call of Cthulhu.

 

[funkysnunkulator]

this is a good idea. a really good idea. if this doesn't work (players don't wanna, time constraints), then look at the other games scenarios and incorporate what you can into your own.

we used to have players who HATED call of cthulhu. said it was nothing but hackneyed plot contrivances with tentacles. said D&D is the only decent game, where nothing is contrived. course, they overlooked the fact that every world has elves...

anyway, reading all the CoC and delta greed stuff, just incorporated those plots, items, beings, and cosmological elements into the game. when it didn't have the CoC name attached, they loved it.

when the alienist was published years ago, it was old hat to our group!!!

now, much has been said about the cheesiness of playing drizzt version 1001. some of these character ideas are popular because this is how we want to see the world. evil can be redeemed and made ally. if that works in your game, go for it.

if it doesn't work, don't allow it. if players gripe, let em play drizzt or whatever. then show them why these characters so rarely survive. show them the difficulty of entering a new culture after a half century living in the underdark. show them that just because the character now has good intentions that the rest of the world feels all warm and cuddley toward them... finally show them the ramifications of an ever increasing number of good aligned drow entering surface society. eventually the drow... the real drow... not those weaklings who fled our perfect world... will use this situation as an opportunity to seed the surface world with operatives... those fools will never see it coming. thier trusting nature shall be thier undoing!!! ALL SHALL BE BROUGHT LOW BEFORE LOLTH!!!!!

er... ahem... right. anyway... you can see how a dm can use any situation as a part of the game. players will always insist on certain things. dms will always use this to thier advantage (you know, to make the game better).

 

[GreatLemur]

In fact, I've been accused of turning every game I run, regardless of what it starts out as, into Call of Cthulhu.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Humans have always been described as Neutral in most version of D&D I can think of

I don't know how the older editions handled them, but in 3e, they don't have any typical alignment, not Neutral, not good, not evil. You can't guess what alignment a human is going to be - elves are supposed to lean towards CG, dwarves towards LG, and so on, but humans don't lean towards anything at all.

 

[Marshal Lucky]

Salvatore didn't do anything with Drizzt that hadn't been done already by countless players once Unearted Arcana came out in 1985. Only he wrote some very bad novels (second-rate Elric, which is funny because Elric was second-rate to begin with) with his Mary Sue character. Drow PCs were old hat two decades ago.

Half-orcs are another matter. They were VERY different in OAD&D in that the ones used as PCs were assumed to be of the rare 10% who could "pass for human". In other words, they were indistinguishable from humans in appearance. This was the race's biggest advantage: even in the most bigoted towns and villages they could travel freely, unless the locals somehow found out about the half-orc's pedigree.

The reason orcs never caught on as PCs is because they're not exotic or particularly powerful. So they have to deal with all the baggage of being a race that is despised by most humans, with little or no benefits. The Mary Sue/emo potential is also pretty slim.

 

[funkysnunkulator]

I don't see anything wrong with that.

1st round of encounter:

"wow!!! rolled maximum damage on the vengful gaze of god spell!!!!!

"that's great!! cthulhu now eats the characters"

2nd round of encounter:

"burp"-cthulhu

hahahahahahahaha!!! nothing wrong with a little insane alien horror and rolling new characters every ennounter!!! good times.....

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I don't know how the older editions handled them, but in 3e, they don't have any typical alignment, not Neutral, not good, not evil. You can't guess what alignment a human is going to be - elves are supposed to lean towards CG, dwarves towards LG, and so on, but humans don't lean towards anything at all.

To me:
No Typical Alignment = Neutral Alignment in general