Why rename HP & Saves?

[Rex Blunder]

True, but it's defenses that evolved from 3e saves. 4e saves are a new mechanic, or, more accurately, an evolution from 4e effect durations.

I think they're good changes - I just know I'll trip over my tongue a couple of times. "Make a Reflex save -- I mean--" -- and probably make mistakes like applying a +1 to saves to defenses.

 

[ThirdWizard]

In the year 2000, HP will achieve a KFC-like Nirvana where most people don't know what it stands for. They will simply refer to them as HP and assume that is simply what they have always been called. If someone points out what it actually means, Wizards will put their fingers in their ears and shout "LALALALALALALA."

 

[Wolfspider]

They should be renamed as "Grit Points," as in the Sidewinder d20 Modern game.

 

[Zaruthustran]

"taking damag" vs. "losing HP"

Given that the game uses the term "damage" whenever an attack lands, I think the rename should be "Damage Threshold".

Instead of having a HP total that's reduced by damage, the paradigm is that you start with 0 damage and accumulate damage as you're hit. Surges and other healing reduce your damage. Temporary hit points are renamed to temporary threshold increases.

So if you're hit in combat and the DM says "take 5 damage", you don't reduce your total HP by 5. Instead, you literally take 5 damage--you add 5 to your total amount of accumulated damage.

This is more intuitive, and negates the whole "what are hit points?" question. "What is damage threshold?" is self-evident; damage threshold is your threshold for soldiering on despite accumulated damage. Exceed it, and you drop.

The question "what is damage" is answered by the game itself. The game already uses the terms "weapon damage", "radiant damage", "poison damage", and so on. Take fire damage and you're burned. Take psychic damage and your brain is fried. If you take too much damage, you collapse.

When you're sorely wounded, you don't call out "Guys! I'm low on hit points!" Instead, you yell "Guys! I can't take much more damage!"

Makes sense to me!

 

[Nahat Anoj]

Given that the game uses the term "damage" whenever an attack lands, I think the rename should be "Damage Threshold".

Instead of having a HP total that's reduced by damage, the paradigm is that you start with 0 damage and accumulate damage as you're hit. Surges and other healing reduce your damage. Temporary hit points are renamed to temporary threshold increases.

So if you're hit in combat and the DM says "take 5 damage", you don't reduce your total HP by 5. Instead, you literally take 5 damage--you add 5 to your total amount of accumulated damage.

This is more intuitive, and negates the whole "what are hit points?" question. "What is damage threshold?" is self-evident; damage threshold is your the threshold for your accumulated damage. Exceed it, and you drop.

The question "what is damage" is answered by the game itself. The game already uses the terms "weapon damage", "radiant damage", "poison damage", and so on. Take fire damage and you're burned. Take poison damage and your brain is fried. If you take too much damage, you drop.

Makes sense to me!

I dig it.

 

[DandD]

Given that the game uses the term "damage" whenever an attack lands, I think the rename should be "Damage Threshold".

Instead of having a HP total that's reduced by damage, the paradigm is that you start with 0 damage and accumulate damage as you're hit. Surges and other healing reduce your damage. Temporary hit points are renamed to temporary threshold increases.

So if you're hit in combat and the DM says "take 5 damage", you don't reduce your total HP by 5. Instead, you literally take 5 damage--you add 5 to your total amount of accumulated damage.

This is more intuitive, and negates the whole "what are hit points?" question. "What is damage threshold?" is self-evident; damage threshold is your the threshold for your accumulated damage. Exceed it, and you drop.

The question "what is damage" is answered by the game itself. The game already uses the terms "weapon damage", "radiant damage", "poison damage", and so on. Take fire damage and you're burned. Take poison damage and your brain is fried. If you take too much damage, you drop.

Makes sense to me!

Sounds quite good. Your interpretation and the original abstract HP-concept can both apply to each another.

 

[Lacyon]

Well, it's not just intent and subjective interpretation but what the game mechanics model. After all, you lose hit points after being hit, and the amount of hit points you lose is a function of the amount of damage done, and that amount of damage depends on the size of the weapon and the strength of its wielder. Further, the amount of hit points you get is increased by increased Constitution, not increased Dexterity or Wisdom. Further, these hit points are ablative and used up, but they can be recovered via healing magic. And so on.

Hit points aren't particularly abstract -- but to make them work we have to hand-wave a lot of things that don't make sense.

Hit points have been abstract from day one. And yes you've always had to hand-wave a lot of things to make them "work".

 

[muffin_of_chaos]

I appreciate Rolemaster's system best I think...as far as I recall, you have a certain number of hitpoints that determines your general status of health and places a modifier on your rolls, and then real damage was caused by crits.

 

[mmadsen]

Hit points have been abstract from day one.

I think you missed my point. Hit points have always been quite explicitly about getting hit, taking damage, and healing that damage. The assertion that they're abstract has always been a way of hand-waving away all the very concrete elements that just don't make sense.

 

[JohnSnow]

Well, it's not just intent and subjective interpretation but what the game mechanics model. After all, you lose hit points after being hit, and the amount of hit points you lose is a function of the amount of damage done, and that amount of damage depends on the size of the weapon and the strength of its wielder. Further, the amount of hit points you get is increased by increased Constitution, not increased Dexterity or Wisdom. Further, these hit points are ablative and used up, but they can be recovered via healing magic. And so on.

Hit points aren't particularly abstract -- but to make them work we have to hand-wave a lot of things that don't make sense.

Ah, but D&D has also never had a system for modeling fatigue. Which is just as dependent (probably moreso) on one's general health and well being (Constitution, that is) as one's resistance to physical injury.

See, hit points have never been intended to be your ability to suck up gaping wounds. They've always been (primarily) about your ability to avoid taking a gaping wound. There are a few "corner case" examples that have been brought up (swimming in lava, falling off a sheer cliff face) that stretch credibility. However, in normal combat, the notion that a blow might glance off your armor, winding you, or that you might twist out of the way at the last minute, turning a gut-spilling blow into a surface scratch is perfectly plausible, and even realistic.

It basically means that hit points are your ability to avoid taking serious injury. As they deplete, the chance of you taking a life-threatening injury rises. Basically, they're a heroic buffer between the character and death.

What I like about Fourth Edition is that the new concept of hit points lets the players observe what happens without knowing for sure what the outcome will be. It's like in an action movie, when a character gets a showy wound across his chest and slumps to the ground. Now, you don't know whether he's going to live or die, and you get to enjoy that uncertainty. The new treatment of hit points brings that same element of excitement to D&D combat. As your hit points get low, there's a chance that every fight could be your last. Stay tuned.

But if it's not, you recover and get to keep adventuring, because, like Indiana Jones, you just weren't that hurt, as beat-up as you might look. Basically, Fourth Edition is an Indiana Jones movie. That's edge-of-your-seat thrills, right there. And, IMO, the game will be better for it.