Why should I care about the FLGS?

[Prince of Happiness]

I'm originally from Lakewood, WA, which has Game Matrix, and that, my friends, is a wonderful, wonderful store. Knowledgable staff, good support of "the scene," doesn't stink! They have a pretty o.k. selection of used stuff, and a pretty good miniature selection.

Also, and I don't think this has really been touched upon, they do devote some shelf space to local publishers, which I think is definitely cool.

Moving up to Seattle, with the closure of Cardhaus games and Games and Gizmos, pretty much the only store that's in walking distance is Golden Age Collectibles, and that place is more for other types of fandom collecting than hardcore gaming. Gary's Games is great, but a little out of my way. I could see myself spending lots n' lots of time there.

On the other hand, since I can't really get to the FLGS (which is more like, kiiiinda local, because I end up thinking by neighborhood), I tend to shop around online, especially looking for used deals. I will order directly from the publisher for Kenzer & Co, Goodman, and Green Ronin though. Somehow I sleep better feeling that my money is going pretty much straight to them.

 

[spacecrime.com]

While I like Dr. Awkward's argument, I don't think it applies well to the average game store. Local businesses can do good things for a local economy -- Northampton is a case in point, since its unique businesses draw customers from throughout the region -- but most game stores are too small to have much economic impact.

Keep in mind that most of the money spent in a game store is going "out of town" to distributors and manufacturers, no matter whether that store is local or part of a national chain like Waldenbooks. As for the 40% of income not spent on cost of goods, about half of that is going into operating expenses like utilities, advertising, and office supplies. Most of that money is going to be spent the same way whether you're local or national -- Waldenbooks uses the same electricity that Joe's Game Shoppe does, and of the two Waldenbooks may be more likely to advertise in the local paper or contribute to a school theatre program.

So, we're down to about 20% of income, which is going to be split between occupancy and labor. Occupancy may be more likely to go local with a local store, because many of the successful chains work hard to own their own real estate and cut deals with towns to minimize property taxes. That's not always the case, though. My new landlord is here in town -- actually right here in the building -- with me, but we spent 9 years in a location owned by a couple in Florida. Meanwhile, there's a Quizno's coming into town that will be paying rent to a local landowner. So the ten cents of your dollar that goes to occupancy may be more likely to stay in the local economy with a local store, but that's not at all certain.

So we're left with labor. Most of that money stays local, but it's not like game store employees don't shop at Wal-Mart or DeepDiscountDVD.com. They're just like anybody else in that some of their money stays and some of it goes, and that wouldn't change whether they were working in a chain or not. The only question is, "how much money do they have to spend", and unfortunately the scales may tip towards the chains there.

A lot of game store owners -- myself included, some years -- work for less than minimum wage. I know at least one store owner in my area (not me) who isn't paying himself at all and is more or less living on support from his family. Most of the people working in game shops are qualified to work in any number of retail or office jobs where they would make more money, which leads to the uncomfortable conclusion that going out of business would probably improve their financial status and their contributions to the local economy.

Again, not arguing against the general rightness of the argument. Having lots of local businesses in a town can be very good for the local economy, and successful local businesses can contribute a lot to their community in wages, purchases, and charitable giving. Based on the numbers I've seen, however, most game stores aren't successful enough to make that kind of contribution. (The ones that are successful enough probably don't need "support", either, since they're drawing in customers on their own merits.)

cheers,

 

[Kaleon Moonshae]

I am increasingly convinced that it is counterproductive for LGS fans to exhort other people into "supporting" local game stores. When it comes right down to it, there is no good reason to "support your FLGS", and telling people to do so just creates backlash threads like this one.

Maybe it's time to change the message to "shop wherever you like to shop" -- that it doesn't matter whether that place is a traditional bricks-and-mortar store, eBay, or an online discounter. If there's a particular venue you like, talk it up -- but don't try to change where other people shop just because it's not the kind of shop you like.

"I like to shop at Amazon because..." or "Castle Perilous is great because..." just seems like a more effective message than telling people to shop in certain kinds of stores for altruistic reasons.

cheers,

I totally agree. This is how many of the eastern religions/philosophies do stuff and it works. Don't tell me I'm wrong and that I should do this or that. Tell me, instead, why you love your way so much and if you are honest and make a good point then I will check it out too. I have never shopped anywhere because someone told me I should or that I was wrong not to. People have told me such things and I usually mark the place off my list of possibilities, but if they tell me "Dang J, you should see the stuff I found at Rick's, it was great, I like the place a lot and think Rick is a great guy." Hell, you tell me that, and I will be over there in a flash to meet this Rick guy.

 

[Mark]

Why should I care about the FLGS? Really, why?

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=87328

That's one of the reasons I care about mine.

 

[Kaleon Moonshae]

1) Kaleon: I'm also in Austin, and I'd be interested in gaming. Give me an email: funksaw@linuxmail.org.

2) As for Dragon's Lair, (which is what I'm assuming you're referring to, other than Thor's Hammer and King's Hobby) I've not found this to be the case. Yeah, it took a while before the guys there could remember my name, but they do now. I have good conversations, they listen to my suggestions, and they're always, always courteous, even when they didn't "know" me.

If you're having trouble getting them to remember you, feel free to strike up a conversation when they're not too busy and you're browsing. Talk about your preferences in RPGs and why - they can usually reccomend stuff and engage in conversation. The one thing I've noticed about Dlair is that their staff knows more about the collectable games and the comics than anything else - so they're more than willing to listen to customers who can tell them what game new game X is about, and why they would prefer it to game Y. They don't tend to follow the online boards, so they're usually finding out about stuff when it comes out in Game Trade Magazine. Give Dlair another try.

I've been going in off and on for over 6 years. When I was with my former girlfriend, her, her husband and I would go in a lot with their macaw and they new Arthurbird and Skye and Eric and they would talk alot with them. Whenever I have gone in there by myself, however, they almost ignore me. The only exception is the cute little overweight girl who works there now, she's nice to me. The owner used to be flat out rude. Everytime they have someone in there who is really friendly with me they leave soon afterwards. I just have never gotten a good vibe in there, except for their cats (who love me and I love them). I have nothing *against* them perse and I am sure they are great people, Skye used to talk highly of the owner. I've just noticed, especially since they have expanded their selection, that they just aren't as friendly as they were when I first started going in there, to anyone I see in there at any time except at night or card gamers.

I still shop there, but it just annoys me after spending 4 years going there every time i visited austin and buying stuff (between 50 and 300$ at a pop sometimes) and then when I moved here going in once a week or so and "chatting" they *still* don't know my name nor act like they recognize me when I stop by. I may just be bitter. They just seem to have gotten cold lately, maybe I've just been really unlucky when I go in there (Which is rare now).

 

[Mouseferatu]

Another Austinite here, and I've got to say, I've never had anything but positive experiences at Dragon's Lair. Yes, they're often harried, and they don't always seem to remember me; that is, they recognize me as someone who's been there before, but not by name. But frankly, I don't expect them to. I've never had them be anything but cordial and friendly, and I've struck up several conversations with many of the staff, including the owner.

I buy some stuff online, and I buy some stuff from a friend of mine who's a distributor. But I still shop at the Lair on a regular basis. I like being able to browse, and possibly discover a book I wouldn't have thought to order specially. I like being able to flip through books. But most of all, I like dealing with other gamers, talking to people, and in general participating in the RPG community. Sure, there are a lot of people who hang out at gaming shops I wouldn't want to deal with. OTOH, there are many that I would, and lumping them all together is grossly unfair.

I'm quite happy with Dragon's Lair, overall, and I will continue to shop from them unless something drastic changes, for as long as I remain in Austin.

 

[Funksaw]

I've been going in off and on for over 6 years. When I was with my former girlfriend, her, her husband and I would go in a lot with their macaw and they new Arthurbird and Skye and Eric and they would talk alot with them. Whenever I have gone in there by myself, however, they almost ignore me. The only exception is the cute little overweight girl who works there now, she's nice to me. The owner used to be flat out rude. Everytime they have someone in there who is really friendly with me they leave soon afterwards. I just have never gotten a good vibe in there, except for their cats (who love me and I love them). I have nothing *against* them perse and I am sure they are great people, Skye used to talk highly of the owner. I've just noticed, especially since they have expanded their selection, that they just aren't as friendly as they were when I first started going in there, to anyone I see in there at any time except at night or card gamers.

I still shop there, but it just annoys me after spending 4 years going there every time i visited austin and buying stuff (between 50 and 300$ at a pop sometimes) and then when I moved here going in once a week or so and "chatting" they *still* don't know my name nor act like they recognize me when I stop by. I may just be bitter. They just seem to have gotten cold lately, maybe I've just been really unlucky when I go in there (Which is rare now).

I'd like to think it's because Dragon's Lair puts out such good product that it's taken them about a half a year before they recognized me. Now, Gamemasters in New Jersey DID recognize me sooner than that, but I was a bit more distinctive. I was the only guy there buying any non-d20 stuff...

Also, I usually go to Dlair at nights - although I might check it out during the day tomorrow.

 

[Raven Crowking]

A store that has a physical storefront has cost requirements that someone's basement doesn't. Simply put, there is extra rent, heat, etc., to pay. Depending upon the volume of sales, some stores simply cannot afford to offer a discount. I know what you'll reply: offer the discount and you'll make it up on volume. That is often not true. Not every product has enough following in a given area to warrant volume sales, and it is the store which has to make the initial investment. FLGSs are not sure things. No personal business is.

When we discuss putting money into the local economy, we often forget the most important reason for doing this: it drives up quality of living. When there is money in a neighborhood, crime rates go down and wages go up. For fun, apply at one of those box stores and see what kind of wages and benefits people working there get. If you think it doesn't matter to you, think again. Those are a lot of people who would be happy to do your job for less than what you make. Try to save a buck at the expense of other people and sooner or later you're being asked to make due with lowered expectations, too. What goes around comes around.

The easiest ways to compete with the likes of Amazon.com are to 1) lower wages, 2) fire people, 3) order up and make lots of returns, ripping off the publisher, or 4) severely limit the chances you take with new product.

Having a hard time finding a good selection? Your LGS probably went with #4. Your LGS not so friendly any more? #1 and #2 will do that to you. Trying to avoid going broke while providing a FLGS atmosphere in the face of an apathetic gaming public can throw anyone off stride.

#3 puts publishers out of business. It also makes publishers leery about taking any kind of chance. This is what is currently happening with book publishers (here in Canada, anyway) due to the practices of large chains.

Finally, those great discounts you're getting? Those exist because they don't want you to go to the alternative -- local booksellers, FLGS, etc. If enough of the local trade disappears, see how long the discounts last.

RC

 

[Calico_Jack73]

I've got to agree with Arcady...

I haven't been to a FLGS in over a year and have really seen no need to. Some people complain about waiting for weeks to receive their orders from on-line stores but that is an exaggeration... I've never waited more than 3 days to get anything from Amazon and that was with their free shipping. I also don't see how it is a hassle to send anything back. They e-mail you an airbill which you tape to the front of the same box they shipped your order in and drop it off at any mailbox. If I had to return something to the FLGS that would have been two trips in my car rather than just one to the post office to return something to Amazon.

Really it is the pricing though that convinced me to quit going to the FLGS. I don't have the gaming budget to be throwing away money that I could otherwise save by shopping on-line. If the FLGS could sell their merchandise for the same price as Amazon then I'd be happy to buy my books from them. However, as it stands Amazon sells many of the same books for up to $10 less than th FLGS so Amazon will continue to get my business. Then again, I've started using E-Bay and haven't bought from Amazon in a while because once again... in the end the dollar does the talking.

Edit: Oh and by the way... I've seen numerous FLGS putting items up for bid at E-Bay and that is the best thing they can possibly do if they want to compete with Amazon. They only pay E-Bay a small fee on items that actually sell but in exchange they are getting free advertising to a much larger audience. If they've got something rare or in demand chances are they'll get much more for the item on E-Bay than if they just put it on a shelf in their store.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

My two cents about it:
I order most of my RPG-Purchases online, for several reasons.

• I usually buy stuff for the best price I can get, and the price difference between my favourite online shop and the Comic Store nearest to me (I don't even know how far the next real GS is away from me) can be big. I wouldn't say anything about 2 euro, but more than 5 and it gets uninteresting
• I want the stuff soon, and the Comic Store nearest to me lags behind quite a bit. Also, it usually takes no more than 3 days to get here, and I don't have to pay anything for shipping
• I had to drive about 40 KM to get to the Comic Store, then get (and pay for) a parking lot, so this will cost me time and money, when I could order it from home for less.
• The assortment in that Store isn't actually breathtaking

Don't get me wrong, I do visit that store, and from time to time I'll buy something there (a set of dice, a Minis booster), but I prefer to have my Rulebooks as soon and as cheap as possible, without the fuss of going to the city (which, as I said, is almost 40 KM away) and get it there.

P.S. The online-shop I buy most stuff from is one of these Gaming Stores that also sell their stuff online, and in fact was the only source for getting Ultramodern Firearms d20 (at least one that didn't involve pay ridiculously high prices and oversee shipping rates)