Why the D20 system has no merits and flaws system ?

[Thresher]

After the recent morass of nerfings, dumpings and other sundry effects that "could be/is/maybe abused" and someone's idea out there in the D20 design team that it all must be "balanced" otherwise people will whine.
Do you honestly think that they'd let such material out in the hands of potential min-maxers/muchkins and a whole host of nasty names used to describe someone thats a rules rapist?

At the moment I think D20 is just going through a phase of making the system as bulletproof as possible to make it easier to GM and play for what they see as a pack of immature newb consumers who dont have any restraint otherwise.

However, they have managed to put out bugger all in the way of actual 'role playing' material so the chances of anyone treating the characters in game as being anything more than stats on paper in a big 1' wargame battlemap with dice are a repercussion we'll see about in a few years I guess when they all realise its kinda boring when its played that way.*

I quite like "adds-disads" in roleplaying games provided they arent used as a tool to "build a better bastard" and can make a character somewhat unique when written well.

*Yes, Thresher is a bitter old prick.

 

[Cybern]

I quite like "adds-disads" in roleplaying games provided they arent used as a tool to "build a better bastard" and can make a character somewhat unique when written well.

Me too. I just asked why not, and the answer is "because it is a min-maxing tool, mostly abused in other system, so there's no place for it here. House Rule it if you want some.

I will, I just got many suggestions.

 

[Bagpuss]

Bagpuss, I don't want to start a thread about RP XP awards, if you don't want them, don't use them.

Not talking about XP, although it does apply to that too. I'm talking about merits and flaws. For example if a player wants a DNPC (Dependent NPC for those not familiar with Hero) let them have one the plot hooks and RP opportunities, and having a contact are built in rewards for having an DNPC, you don't need to give them additional points to spend on their character.

 

[Psion]

However, they have managed to put out bugger all in the way of actual 'role playing' material so the chances of anyone treating the characters in game as being anything more than stats on paper in a big 1' wargame battlemap with dice are a repercussion we'll see about in a few years I guess when they all realise its kinda boring when its played that way.*

Oooh, look, someone is here to tell me that my game has been boring, and we really haven't been having fun all these years. And here I thought that our role-playing was just dandy without any artificial enhanements from the system.

Good thing you warned me. I might have mistaken our experiences for fun.

 

[Thresher]

Im not talking about existing roleplayers, Im referring to the new batch of players comming into the system that dont really have much of an idea of advanced character development and playing in character.
Sure, they'll have a good grasp of rules but will they do a 10-20 questions on character background?

Over the last 12 months or so Ive introduced about 5-6 people into D&D and watching them play and master the game its something I see lacking and somewhat worrisome to me that the game has just turned into stats-battlemap-figures for some people.

Look man, Im not kicking anyone in the balls for how they like to play the game.
I can appreciate that some people dont see it the way I do and dont enjoy the things I do, Im not even gunna rag on anyone for min-maxing, its fun to have a fantasy super hero, thats rough, tuff and kicks arse.

Sh*t if we all wanted to have characters that where store clerks and cubical dwellers thats real life, which is not why I play...

 

[Maggan]

Balancing a one-legged character?

But what about a one-legged character? I'd like to play one (maybe even a Monk!), but how is it to be balanced?

Errh... on crutches?

Sorrysorrysorry... (running for cover)

M.

 

[buzz]

Remember that an aristocrat is an NPC class. If you wanted a PC class along those lines, beefing up the money or adding a "favors" check that goes up by level and allows access to resources and such from friends and family in low places would seem apropos.

Bingo! You can always port the noble class from SW into your game. That, or GR is coming out with (or already has?) a Noble's Handbook that introduces a new aristocratic class.

 

[jmucchiello]

Unbelieveable. I was working on a flaw system where the flaw was ranked 1, 2 or 3 based on how much of the character's career would be affected by the flaw. A minor villain hunting the character would be worth 1 rank if he could be defeated by 5th level, 2 ranks if he could be defeated by 10th level, etc. It took 3 ranks to trade in a flaw for a benefit. Benefits were not worth as much as a feat. They tended to be contacts, patrons, etc.

In any case, I gave up on this idea when The Book of Drawbacks and Distinctions hit RPGNow.com. It's an excellent book and covered most everything I was working on so I stopped. What I find unbelieveable is that no one has mention BD&D at all in this thread. It's like 40th on the all time sales list over there. Give it a look if you really want to work with Drawbacks and Distinctions.

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

As some people have noted, D&D3.5 is going to lead to lots of house rules, since essentially that was all that was printed for 3.5 -- one person's set of house rules.

Er..actually, nobody noted that. Thanks for the troll, though.

 

[Kirowan]

In any case, I gave up on this idea when The Book of Drawbacks and Distinctions hit RPGNow.com. It's an excellent book and covered most everything I was working on so I stopped. What I find unbelieveable is that no one has mention BD&D at all in this thread. It's like 40th on the all time sales list over there. Give it a look if you really want to work with Drawbacks and Distinctions.

I mentioned it above. It really is a good book. The curses and taints rock as well.

Nick