Why the fear and hatred of Disjunction?

[Quartz]

Why do so many seem to be afraid of or against the spell Mage's Disjunction? So it destroys the PCs buffs and equipment; so what? They're still alive and unharmed (of course, a RBDM might put them in a hostile environment ). And they can cast more spells. And they can get or create more items. At lower levels, it's a real BBEG spell. A one-shot item of Mage's Disjunction should be well within the reach of a 10th level or so BBEG. After all, how's he going to keep his lieutenants in check?

"See here the Talisman of Ak-Zanar. It had the ability to destroy all magic but that of its wielder. Do you really want to face me?" (Unsaid: "It only works once, and then departs to be found by someone else.")

Yes, chaps, your 7th level PCs might be facing a Disjunction.

Equally, it's a fine special pupose power for a mage-slaying weapon.

And it provides a real use for the Enchanted Weapon / Greater Enchanted Weapon / Magic Vestment / etc buffing spells: "Hey Gandalf, he's de-magicked my sword: do something!" Buffing after, rather than before. If the item is particularly special, then PCs can use a Wish to recover it if of sufficient level, or quest for one if not.

From the play POV it also provides the ideal way of getting rid of old, unused, or troublesome items and introducing new ones. It also stops PC depending upon certain items, since they might not have them much longer. And if PCs are of a mind to create their own replacement items, then you have plot hooks galore.

How say you?

 

[Darklone]

Dysjunction = Sunder = Game balance is threatened by too much or not enough treasure. If you allow the spell to be used widely, you have to counter the effect by allowing easy access to item crafting/buying and money. Now if you do that and don't use it enough, you have too much items.

 

[KarinsDad]

I'm glad you are not my DM.

You appear to miss the concept of FUN in the game.

Certain actions in a game are counter to the idea of fun unless the DM is sadistic (and hence, only fun for him).

If as a player I work for several months of real time to acquire an item and the DM takes it away in a split second, he'd be very likely to get soda thrown at him. Do you understand now?

 

[Seeten]

Since high level fighters are %70 gear and %30 character, it makes you into 3/10ths the man you were 10 seconds before.

As you say, as A wizard, you still have your 9th level spells, assuming you are level 17 or so, but as a fighter, fighting a cr20 monster with your longsword of not magical = dead. Good luck to you, though, killing a demon with a longsword and ac 20

 

[Patlin]

My players like to accumulate treasure. This spell reduces the fun of the game for them. I therefore house rule the spell.

Why? Well, we play the game to have fun...

 

[Crothian]

It depends on the focus of the game. Many games and players as we see here focus on the treasure and this kills that fun for them. However in a group that focuses more on the story and the challenges it works fine. There are many ways to play the game and the spell doesn't work for all of them.

 

[KarinsDad]

And it provides a real use for the Enchanted Weapon / Greater Enchanted Weapon / Magic Vestment / etc buffing spells: "Hey Gandalf, he's de-magicked my sword: do something!" Buffing after, rather than before.

Many players try to craft +1 weapons and armor with special qualities already. It is a lot cheaper to do so and have the weapon buffed. So, these buff spells already have a "real use". In fact, it is a extremely significant use. Those are bread and butter spells in some campaigns.


In campaigns where this does not happen, then the Clerics and Wizards will not have these buff spells prepared since Disjunction is not a spell that typically happens in a game. So in that scenario, the PC asking for the buff is typically hosed anyway because the spell caster will not have prepared the spell.


Either way, your logic here is totally flawed.

 

[lukelightning]

It also depends on how available loot/magic items is in a given campaign. Many DMs are also highly resistant to the idea of "magic shops" in any form. So the items you have are hard to replace, and there is no certainty you'll get what you want.

"So you lost your +3 keen wounding waraxe. Here's a +3 mace of disruption instead!" (Ignoring the fact the character spent several feats specializing in waraxe...)

And then if you want to have items tailored to your character, you have to craft them youself, so it costs you XP in addition to the money. So a single spell can take 100,000 gp of items from you...and thousands of xp as well.

So it might be better to just make a new character.

 

[KarinsDad]

It depends on the focus of the game. Many games and players as we see here focus on the treasure and this kills that fun for them. However in a group that focuses more on the story and the challenges it works fine. There are many ways to play the game and the spell doesn't work for all of them.

I think this can (and often will) kill the fun even in a story focused game. Being story focused does not necessarily equate to being carefree about loss of expensive equipment.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

From a financial point of view - Being dead is much cheaper to fix...

A 9th level spell and some diamonds vs a full 20th level characters load of gear.

Assuming someones alive to resurrect you that is.

Which is a weird artefact of DnD, but what can you do


Always felt the will save for items was kinda mean. The casters will, assuming sane DCs, get to keep far more of their stuff - whereas the fighter types, who are generally far more reliant on it all, will get theirs fried.


Having said that, the last high level campaign i was in saw my characters items destroyed 3 times. It's actually quite a liberating experience - cuts down the clutter on the character sheet.