D&D General Why the resistance to D&D being a game?

[Vaalingrade]

But you need the illusion that they are real.
It is not fun to engage with Game Mechanic NPC 721, it is fun to interact with Grodi the Goblin Marauder.
So everything that is done to NPCs by players needs to be supported by the ingame fiction.
Narrative controlling player facing rules that can override ingamr fiction are laying the game mechanics bare. It's like seeing the Boom Mic and the green screen in a fantasy movie. It destroys the experience for a lot of people.

And there it is.

This is an example of someone resisting D&D being a game. We need to keep up kayfabe at all times even if it presents us from playing out the genre fantasies we want to play out like taunting.

It is always that certain classes have different abilities. Fighters are good at fighting. Rogues good at Sneaking and thieving and Wizards are good at magic.

And then we let magic do everything!

So wizards get to be good at fighting and sneaking and doing things normal people in the normal world can do but some people in the fandom can't accept.

You complaing that a fighter can't mind control NPC and bend reality of the world by normal speaking as something unfair is like somebody complaing that it is unfair that a Wizard is not very good at Meele fighting.

I am not. That is the part you keep ignoring over and over again. I'm complaining that a fighter can't taunt someone and expect them to react the way extras in an action movie react when taunted. It's not mind controls. It's not bending reality. It isn't supernatural. It's a thing people do both as a trope in media and in the actual world--people do this all the time to the point that it's gained a term for its use as a means of ending one's life.

Also, Bladesinger: the wizard better at melee fighting than the fighter. So yes, it would be wrong to complain about wizards not being good at fighting because they're spectacular.

That's by design!

Bad design.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Thor by being a demigod

Um, actually, Thor is a full god, no demi about it.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

The latter 3 plus Captain America. Wolverine might come close to being a troll fighter if his radical regeneration wasn't stopped by being burned.

To be fair, how 5e standard healing rules work, everyone is Wolverine.

 

[Aldarc]

You complaing that a fighter can't mind control NPC and bend reality of the world by normal speaking as something unfair is like somebody complaing that it is unfair that a Wizard is not very good at Meele fighting.
That's by design!

For the record, we are talking about the fighter having an ability that emulates warriors taunting their enemies in the comparable genre fiction. If any of us are approaching that with honest good faith, we can recognize that none of that is mind controlling NPCs or bending the reality of the world. It's about creating a fighter that emulates the fiction for warriors.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

But I don't believe there is anything in the D&D rules to suggest that the existence of a character class ability means that NPCs can use that ability against PCs. Sure, an "NPCs with character levels are perfectly possible" but they don't (as far as I'm aware) exist as an official thing.

It's in the DMG.

 

[Vaalingrade]

To be fair, how 5e standard healing rules work, everyone is Wolverine.

I don't recall Logan being shredded in combat with his abilities totally unable to keep up with damage from just dudes with knives.

 

[Oofta]

For the record, we are talking about the fighter having an ability that emulates warriors taunting their enemies in the comparable genre fiction. If any of us are approaching that with honest good faith, we can recognize that none of that is mind controlling NPCs or bending the reality of the world. It's about creating a fighter that emulates the fiction for warriors.

The issue is not taunting. It's being able to taunt everyone within 30 feet no matter what the circumstance and forcing them to use their reaction to approach the PC. Anyone can taunt, this is an ability that forces a specific reaction without restriction.

 

[Oofta]

you were the one proposing McLane, if you do not like him as an example, then propose someone else and see if we consider them a good representation of a 5e fighter

The best examples would have to be genre appropriate. So Geralt from the Witcher, Conan from the movie, Uhtred from The Last Kingdom to name a few. I'm sure someone with HBO could rattle off some from GoT. Are they going to match exactly? No, of course not. Why would they? But at least don't pick from a genre that has modern firearms and then say they're nothing like a fighter because they aren't The Terminator.

 

[Bill Zebub]

It's in the DMG.

That proves my point! They obviously don't want anybody actually knowing about that option.

 

[mamba]

Looks like an awful rule ready to be misused and leading to a lot of discussion about what a reasonable request is.

I don’t know, chars can make such requests in game as well, rule or not, and the resolution would not be all that different