D&D General Why the resistance to D&D being a game?

[Micah Sweet]

Would you say you should apply that to say, a rogue's Sneak Attack or Evasion abilities?

Theoretically, but neither of those demand behavior on the part of NPCs without some kind of skill roll.

 

[Muh]

In none of those instances are you nonmagically compelling someone to disregard their own survival instincts. Quite the opposite.

But do we consider that in other scenarios? I mean. You are saying essentially that there is no non-magical way to compel someone to disregard their own survival instincts, which seems inherently wrong.

For example that assumes a completely rational behavior from all participants, but we know this is not the case. That is why there is a wisdom save.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

If the boulder more-or-less fills the corridor, and the PC is at a dead end, don't they (at least by the rules) still get a Reflex save, get to use Evasion if a rogue, etc?

This again comes down to the point I made in regards to Gygax's statement about D&D saving throws. Are they merely a mechanism to adjudicate plausible lucky escapes requiring a preexisting fictional 'out' or are they a literal narrative mechanism by which a player, with a successful roll, COMPELS the GM to fictionally explain the outcome (or even gives the player that power, Gygax didn't especially come down on one side here, though I expect it's pretty safe to assume he would have given that authority to the GM).

 

[Micah Sweet]

But do we consider that in other scenarios? I mean. You are saying essentially that there is no non-magical way to compel someone to disregard their own survival instincts, which seems inherently wrong.

For example that assumes a completely rational behavior from all participants, but we know this is not the case. That is why there is a wisdom save.

Not under any and all circumstances, no. There is no nonmagical way to do that in my view.

 

[Gammadoodler]

One can override human behavior regardless of circumstance, and the other has to interact with the humans and the world we have. That's the only answer for me, but its fine if you disagree.

I mean that's not really a reason for your answer. It's just your answer restated.

Why should the spell override human behavior regardless of circumstance? And symmetrically, why shouldn't insults override human behavior regardless of circumstance.

 

[CreamCloud0]

He feels like a little stronger than the typical orc or goliath? ...

i just picked a player-species that felt apropriately hulk-flavoured, being a barbarian is more the significant contributor of their strength, and, y'know, what PC is ever 'a typical representaion' of their species given that their stats go up to 20 while commoners statblocks have flat 10's as standard?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I mean that's not really a reason for your answer. It's just your answer restated.

Why should the spell override human behavior regardless of circumstance? And symmetrically, why shouldn't insults override human behavior regardless of circumstance.

I'm cool with a spell doing that being toned down as well. Things are too easy as it is.

 

[Gimby]

I mean that's not really a reason for your answer. It's just your answer restated.

Why should the spell override human behavior regardless of circumstance? And symmetrically, why shouldn't insults override human behavior regardless of circumstance.

Let's see how one of the characters quoted as inspirational to D&D dies :

"
The first son of Calatan asked him for a spear, and threatened to satirize Cuchulain if he did not hand it over. Cuchulainn narrowed his eyes and said, “Never let it be said that I am not a generous person,” and he flung the spear straight through the head of the first son of Calatan, killing him instantly. Lugaid Cu Roi pulled out the spear, and threw it back at Cuchulainn, missing him, but striking Laeg, his charioteer and constant companion, through the stomach. So fell Laeg Mac Riangabra, king among charioteers.

The second son of Calatan stepped forward, and asked for a spear. Cuchulainn refused, saying he had given enough to satisfy his honour, but the son of Calatan threatened to satirize all of Ulster. So Cuchulainn said, “Never let it be said that Ulster will lose its honour because of its champion,” and he cast his spear through the second son’s head. Lugaid Cu Roi pulled out the spear and threw it back at Cuchulainn, killing the horse, Lia Macha. Cuchulainn fell to his knees, and wept over her. So fell Lia Macha, king among horses.

The third son of Calatan asked for a spear, or he would satirize Cuchulainn’s family. Cuchualinn said “Never let it be said I brought dishonour on my family,” and threw the spear through his head. Lugaid Cu Roi pulled the spear out, and threw it at Cuchulainn, straight through his stomach, spraying out his intestines. Cuchulainn, mortally wounded, had only enough strength in him to crawl to a nearby lake for a drink of water. His enemies hung back, afraid that he had more strength than he was showing. The water revived him somewhat.

"

Repeatedly insulted into doing something self-destructive.

 

[Cadence]

i just picked a player-species that felt apropriately hulk-flavoured, being a barbarian is more the significant contributor of their strength, and, y'know, what PC is ever 'a typical representaion' of their species given that their stats go up to 20 while commoners statblocks have flat 10's as standard?

Sure, but lifting 100+ tons seems like a lot for most D&D things?

"Hulk-flavoured" seems like a different matter and have nothing against that. Although I'm guessing gamma flavoring would need to be labeled carcinogenic in California. (But seriously, going for hulk-flavor seems great).

 

[Azzy]

Circumstances apply to that check,

Oh, you can't make circumstances apply to saving throw of the taunt?

and it doesn't result in the target disregarding their survival instincts. Someone's making a silly argument here, but it's not me.

But it does result in a die roll dictating what the creature does in a non-magic way. Something you disapproved of previously.