Unearthed Arcana Why UA Psionics are never going to work in 5e.

[Aldarc]

I’ve never understood why psionics needs it’s own class. They’re just sorcerers right? They have an innate power they need to learn to control. Just give them a subclass with more mind control type spells.

Not quite. Different aesthetics and fantasy. I don't think that it's useful to apply such shallow readings of psions. If you apply equally shallow readings of other classes, then you will find yourself down to about 4 classes, which would certainly satisfy some people.

 

[cbwjm]

I actually think they are on the right track with the latest psionics release with the psychic dice mechanic and while I do want a full class (which apparently isn't quite off the table yet) if that doesn't eventuate then I should be able to homebrew something using the existing mechanics.

Considering all the disparate DnD communities that will talk about UA, I think the numbers would be quite large. I also think that WotC are able to sort through the survey data and see the more extreme view points and ignore them, or at least not give them as much weight. They will release something and there will be people who moan about it, but so what, let them complain while everyone else gets on with adding psionics to their game of Dark Sun (which I'm assuming will be how psionics are released to the world... maybe).

 

[Big Bucky]

Not quite. Different aesthetics and fantasy. I don't think that it's useful to apply such shallow readings of psions. If you apply equally shallow readings of other classes, then you will find yourself down to about 4 classes, which would certainly satisfy some people.

I get that the fluff is different but compare them with the rest of the classes. Wizards get their power from learning spells. Clerics from their god. Druids from nature. Warlocks from their patron. Sorcerers have innate powers. Where do psions fit in there? Do they have unique enough powers to separate them from the others? Just my opinion.

 

[Aldarc]

I get that the fluff is different but compare them with the rest of the classes. Wizards get their power from learning spells. Clerics from their god. Druids from nature. Warlocks from their patron. Sorcerers have innate powers. Where do psions fit in there? Do they have unique enough powers to separate them from the others? Just my opinion.

Power of the mind.

 

[Big Bucky]

Power of the mind.

how is that different from sorcerers? They don’t control their powers with the mind?

Four classes? Way too many. Original D&D had three. Fighting-Man, Magic-User, and Cleric lol.

 

[Aldarc]

how is that different from sorcerers? They don’t control their powers with the mind?

I feel like I am being tasked to convince someone who has already made up their mind and determined not to change it.

 

[Big Bucky]

I feel like I am being tasked to convince someone who has already made up their mind and determined not to change it.

Haha you may be right. Like I said I don’t really get psions. To me Divine Soul seems much more of a departure from traditional sorcerers than psions.

 

[Aldarc]

Haha you may be right. Like I said I don’t really get psions. To me Divine Soul seems much more of a departure from traditional sorcerers than psions.

The sorcerer flavor text emphasizes supernatural bloodlines, raw magic, cosmic exposure to magical radiation, and the like. A sorcerer is described as being a spellcaster that suffused with magic so that it comes naturally: they are magic. This isn't really at all how a psion is described. Their powers are innate to the extent that the mind is part of the self.

Psions are described as spellcasters who harness the power of the mind through a form of mental discipline. It's not necessarily either a narrative of "born this way" (as per the sorcerer) or "learned this way" (as per the wizard). What matters is that the power comes from what the mind, and psionics is concerned about what the mind can achieve. The wizard may ask, "What are the bounds of magic?" but the psion will likely ask, "What are the bounds of my mind?"

 

[Guest 6801328]

The sorcerer flavor text emphasizes supernatural bloodlines, raw magic, cosmic exposure to magical radiation, and the like. A sorcerer is described as being a spellcaster that suffused with magic so that it comes naturally: they are magic. This isn't really at all how a psion is described. Their powers are innate to the extent that the mind is part of the self.

Psions are described as spellcasters who harness the power of the mind through a form of mental discipline. It's not necessarily either a narrative of "born this way" (as per the sorcerer) or "learned this way" (as per the wizard). What matters is that the power comes from what the mind, and psionics is concerned about what the mind can achieve. The wizard may ask, "What are the bounds of magic?" but the psion will likely ask, "What are the bounds of my mind?"

Honestly, I think you are splitting hairs. The examples you mention above...which are essentially direct quotes from the PHB...to me sound like they could neatly cover psionics. I get Big Bucky's point and am sympathetic to it: both sorcerers and psionicists (intentionally not using the word Psion here because I think maybe it carries baggage/connotations/expectations) have innate power. You either have it, or you don't. So, yeah, in many ways the Sorcerer could make a good chassis for a psionicist.

The flip side is that oodles of Sorcerer spells don't really fit the (or my) image of a psionicist, and there's not real mechanism or precedent in 5e for removing spells from a base class spell list.

Another downside is that Sorcerers are very clearly...it is stated repeatedly...about magic. And even if psionics officially are considered magic (for the purposes of detecting, dispelling, etc.) to me they feel like...something else. Certainly if Divine and Arcane magic are siblings, or half-siblings, psionics are a distant cousin, several times removed. And probably the result of a hushed-up affair with an exotic dancer.

And, finally, I've always been in the camp that Sorcerers are really so close to Wizards...Vancian casting, spell slots, etc. etc. etc....that why even bother including them? So I'm all for a totally different mechanic. Not because a psionicist couldn't simply be a refluffed sorcerer...it could...but because it would be fun to use a completely different set of mechanics.

Is there any possibility that's really where you're coming from, too? If so, I don't think it's necessary to try to argue why a different concept can't re-use mechanics and must have distinct mechanics. It's simpler, and irrefutable, to say, "I'm tired of the standard spell mechanics and I would have more fun playing something more distinctive."

 

[Shiroiken]

I get that the fluff is different but compare them with the rest of the classes. Wizards get their power from learning spells. Clerics from their god. Druids from nature. Warlocks from their patron. Sorcerers have innate powers. Where do psions fit in there? Do they have unique enough powers to separate them from the others? Just my opinion.

Yes, they would. The Sorcerer doesn't have innate powers, but can innately cast spells, wherease the Psion draws the power directly from the mind (it would be Int based, rather than Cha based). It's a subtle difference, but not that different from the Cleric and Druid. Think of them as a non-martial version of the monk, using their inner power to create supernatural effects.