D&D 4E Why Vampires Suck in 3.X, and How 4e Can Fix Them

[Victim]

Right, but part of what makes vampires so terrifying is the fact that the turn their victims into inhuman monsters, too. If it's not a reasonable prospect for PCs, that critical aspect of the monster is lost.

I think a more progression based assortment of vampiric powers, influence against thralls instead of absolute control, etc make vampires more human and less monstrous. They don't turn you into one of them, they just give you new talent options to pick.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I want 4E vampires to drain blood, not levels. I want them to have the traditional "Three Bites and you're turned into one of us" vampiric creation element - I could also handle a little Anne Rice-ish turning mechanic (feed off the blood of master vampire after being drained to become one). I want ways for them to become more powerful in their vampiric ways. I want mook vamps and boss vamps (it sounds like they're giving me this form the "spawn" and "lord" designations in the latest design article) I want to see the end of the "track the gassy vampire back to his coffin" end-game - gaseous form can be one of several of the abilities powerful vampires get, but I want mook vamps who are more like Buffy Vamps than what previous versions of D&D have given us.

 

[Anthtriel]

So...you are complaining that a PC that become infected with vampirism is unplayable as a PC?

I have to say that I don't have a problem with this.

IMO, Vampires are evil, horrible creatures of the night that prey on the innocent and the upright and are known to ally themselves with the foulest of forces arrayed against civilization--the undead and the fiendish powers. They are predators. People are tools and cattle.

Well, you can play the guy who has made a contract with a devil, so I guess the repentant vampire isn't any worse.

Plus, what the OP suggested is closer to a half vampire, who has just some of the typical powers. You wouldn't want to have PCs who turn into ash when exposed to sunlight. Not unless the players really commit to that.

 

[Rechan]

Solution: a PC inflicted with vampirism becomes an NPC. Roll a new character.

For the most part, I agree with this.

However. There are rules, right there in the core books, about a character being infected with lycanthropy. Once a character is infected, he doesn't become an NPC. He's expected to deal with it. It's an implied threat of all lycanthropes - one of the things that make them scary as opponents.

So it's not a hard stretch to say the same should apply for vampires.

Though, I'd say that a PC becoming a vampire isn't just a boost in power, but it's a headache for the party. "Sorry guys, I can't go with you over there - sunlight. We gotta wait." "Sorry guys, running water. I'll see you when you get back."

 

[Hella_Tellah]

Solution: a PC inflicted with vampirism becomes an NPC. Roll a new character.

Well, yeah, that's the status quo, I just don't think that's much fun. If all PCs afflicted with vampirism get NPC'd, you'll never have a quest to regain one's humanity, or struggling with the need to feed despite your lawful good alignment.

Besides, allowing PCs to become vampires and lycanthropes in a balanced way would allow Wizards to take some of White Wolf's money and use it on proper editing .

 

[Rechan]

I want 4E vampires to drain blood, not levels. I want them to have the traditional "Three Bites and you're turned into one of us" vampiric creation element - I could also handle a little Anne Rice-ish turning mechanic (feed off the blood of master vampire after being drained to become one). I want ways for them to become more powerful in their vampiric ways. I want mook vamps and boss vamps (it sounds like they're giving me this form the "spawn" and "lord" designations in the latest design article) I want to see the end of the "track the gassy vampire back to his coffin" end-game - gaseous form can be one of several of the abilities powerful vampires get, but I want mook vamps who are more like Buffy Vamps than what previous versions of D&D have given us.

Check out "Denizens of Dread"; the Vampire is presented with age categories, and there are different vampire variants for the various races.

What I want is the vampire template to not be straight 'every vampire who ever walked gets all these abilities'; I want 'vampire power packages' or 'mix and match abilities'. Sure, you can have Bram Stoker's "turn into a bat, summon wolves, and dominate you with a glance", but how about something that turns into a swarm of insects? Has a gaze of confusion? Can Hide in Plain Sight or perhaps Dimensional Door through shadows?

There are tons of special abilities that are presented in various novels I'd love to have access to. Like a vampire having an "animal to call"; power over the lycanthropes and normal animals associated with animal x that they can call. A powerful "human servant". Etc, etc.

The problem I see with draining blood, not levels, is that it's really hard to get a guy and latch onto his neck in 3.e. You gotta win a grapple (which provokes an AoO). You gotta then pin, and then bite, and then, while you're grappling his friends are beating on your head.

 

[Rechan]

Well, yeah, that's the status quo, I just don't think that's much fun. If all PCs afflicted with vampirism get NPC'd, you'll never have a quest to regain one's humanity, or struggling with the need to feed despite your lawful good alignment.

Well technically, there's nothing that says a vampire needs to feed (unless you have Libris Mortis, anyways).

But even, EVEN if the PC just became undead, without the powers that vampires give you, that's at least a +1 LA right there, because of the immunities that being undead gives you.

Besides, allowing PCs to become vampires and lycanthropes in a balanced way would allow Wizards to take some of White Wolf's money and use it on proper editing .

And listen to "OMG It's not D&D"? We're getting enough accusations of 4e being all about emo kids with the tiefling and warlock.

 

[Anthtriel]

The problem I see with draining blood, not levels, is that it's really hard to get a guy and latch onto his neck in 3.e. You gotta win a grapple (which provokes an AoO). You gotta then pin, and then bite, and then, while you're grappling his friends are beating on your head.

Well, I'm sure they managed to give them a decent ability for that. I mean, what's the point of a vampire that cannot even suck your blood?

But even, EVEN if the PC just became undead, without the powers that vampires give you, that's at least a +1 LA right there, because of the immunities that being undead gives you.

Judging from the devil stat block, they have probably thrown most of them out.
And no one says new vampires need to get the full package anyway.

 

[Patlin]

Simplest solution: A PC who becomes a vampire becomes an NPC.

 

[Rechan]

Judging from the devil stat block, they have probably thrown most of them out.
And no one says new vampires need to get the full package anyway.

The full package of what? No con score (making you immune to all fort saves)? The immunity to illusions and enchantments?