Why We Should Work With WotC

[Art Waring]

The only reason they listened AT ALL is because of the DDB subscription cancellations. They didn't care about 3pp's until the community moved to support them. All corporate execs care about is money. Wotc has no choice but to follow their (Hasbro's) orders. How do you negotiate with a corporate entity that wants you gone & out of business?

Most importantly, RPG's have very long lead time, production can take years before you have a finished product. I lost years because I am/ was working on an extensive 5e project that is now potentially unuseable in its current form.

They already attempted this years ago with the 4e GSL, & now again with the entire 1.0a OGL ecosphere. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...

The new license still attempts to deauthorize the 1.0a, something that many are saying is illegal, not to mention unethical. Why should I negotiate with a company that acts in bad faith and is attempting something that is potentially going to destroy the entire 3pp industry?

 

[Umbran]

We are the wronged parties here. You do not compromise with an abuser in such a manner as to give them the opportunity to victimize you again.

Except, they haven't actually done anything yet. They started to do something, we found out, shouted at them, and they stopped to reconsider. No license has been issued. No harm has been done yet.

Positioning oneself as a victim when you haven't yet been harmed is not a service to victims. And, for the vast majority of us, for the non-publishers, the harm will be, "I can't buy from the same variety of luxury entertainment products as I used to." That's... not a great claim to being a victim.

The third party publishers that can get hosed by this are victims. They stand to lose their livelihoods. It is good for us to be their allies in this, but we should not take on the same status as they have in this situation.

The OGL 1.0a is the foundation of a symbiotic relationship between the gaming community "in the wild" and the Hasbro-WotC corporation.

Unfortunately, Hasbro-WotC attempts to undo this OGL 1.0a.

Hasbro-WotC seeks to become parasitic.

That's some heavily loaded language there.

Sal's Pizza, down on the corner, has a storefront, kitchen, seating, and all that. They sell pizza, and folks buy pizza. Normal relationship. They don't, however, advertise that every other person who wants to start a restaurant can come and use their space and utilities, free of charge, to do pop-up restaurant business.

Maybe doing so would be good for Sal's. But they aren't a parasite for not doing it. If they do it for a decade, and a thriving community of pop-up restaurants develops, just yanking that venue out from under them to make room for arcade games would be a jerk move, and we'd argue against it, but it wouldn't make them a parasite. "I make/provide stuff, you buy stuff," is not parasitism.

The gaming community has, for twenty years, enjoyed basically unprecedented ease of work with WotC. The vast majority of IP holders don't let other commercial interests play with their stuff nearly so easily. One might even say we were given great privilege.

The removal of privilege feels like abuse, but that doesn't make it so - they seem to want to return to a more normal business relationship. They produce stuff, and we buy it, or not, as we desire.

Normal business relationships are... normal, not parasitic. In condemning that, you don't just condemn big businesses - you condemn Sal's Pizza as well, along with the vast majority of other small businesses.

 

[Scars Unseen]

1.0a is the divide. It stays, and people/publishers can create content using it for the existing SRDs. That's the only thing I'm asking, and it's the only thing I'll accept. They can do whatever they want with their new content, but reneging on the deal WotC made with the community and the industry when the OGL was drafted and revealed is a complete nonstarter. It means that WotC can never be trusted again, and it means I'll never purchase a product from them again.

 

[Charlaquin]

Normal business relationships are... normal, not parasitic. In condemning that, you don't just condemn big businesses - you condemn Sal's Pizza as well, along with the vast majority of other small businesses.

That’s… debatable.

 

[Remathilis]

That’s… debatable.

There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Until a different, more egalitarian system is in place though, we work within the confines of what we have. In those confines, Umbran isn't wrong.

 

[Steampunkette]

Sal's Pizzeria is a bad example. To make it closer to a real example, Sal's Pizzeria would've been sharing not it's ovens and it's store-space, but the IDEA of Pizza as a form of flatbread with specific toppings put onto it in relative quantities... for 20 years.

And then unilaterally deciding that no one is allowed to make pizza as a type of flatbread with specific toppings put onto it in relative quantities could do so unless they paid Sal 25% of all income over $750,000 and the reverse authorization to use your recipes of flatbreads, sauces, toppings, and all other pizza-related ideas with no payments to you, the pizza innovator.

That is what makes Sal's Pizzeria a parasite in this context. They invented pizza, everyone loves it, new pizza places showed up offering knock-off pizza for decades, and then some of them started to make enough money that Sal's is saying "You can't make Pizza anymore unless you abide by the new terms and give me a slice."

Pun intended.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I have no reason to think Paizo and Wizards will fight. ORC and OGL can coexist. There should be nothing stopping people from working on both licenses.

Yeah I almost feel Like ORC is a big bonus to WotC as long as it is out there some of teh damage from this is mitigated.

Paizo Will Fight
But will they?
A common sentiment is that we don’t need to compromise as Paizo will fight for Open Gaming. But Paizo isn’t some noble, selfless shining knight. They’re a business too. In cynical terms, they’re also out to make a profit, and right now it benefits them to position themselves as WotC’s opposition, as Paizo likes to present themselves as the plucky Rebels to WotC’s evil Empire. Because it garners them good will, which translates into sales. (Remember that less than eighteen months ago, Paizo was in the hot seat for mismanagement and treating employees so poorly that events culminated in their workers forming a union.)
Even in slightly less cynical terms, Paizo still has hundreds of employees to take care of who all have families. They’re not going to risk those on a prolonged lawsuit with no benefit other than winning points for the fandom.
Plus, realistically, WotC doesn’t have to win to “win.”

WotC Wants to kill 3PP
But do they?
This is the argument seen for why WotC is killing the OGL1. They’re out to eliminate their competition.
Except Paizo and the like doesn’t compete with D&D. Pathfinder competes with other 3rd Party D&D publishers, vying for the #2 spot on ICv2 charts. WotC probably didn’t even consider 3rd Party Publishers in their plans, viewing them as insignificant. It'd be like a Starbucks store worrying about sales lost to a little girl's lemonade stand.

Not to be very tinfoil hat like or anything but they share emplyees... they have friends across the isle... they know each other and know that Piazo gets a bonus from being the 'hero'

 

[Voadam]

Except, they haven't actually done anything yet. They started to do something, we found out, shouted at them, and they stopped to reconsider. No license has been issued. No harm has been done yet.

What?

They have announced their intention to repudiate the license that the OGL industry and community work off of. This has taken away the supposedly irrevocable safe harbor of the industry that they had promised and that the industry relied upon. They have introduced a legal threat to everyone in the industry and even though no legal change has been effected yet, the threat and harm is happening now.

The industry is reacting, many are moving away from OGL and support for D&D. Industry people are sweating this heavily. Projects are being delayed as this new active legal threat is evaluated.

 

[Staffan]

Except, they haven't actually done anything yet. They started to do something, we found out, shouted at them, and they stopped to reconsider. No license has been issued. No harm has been done yet.

I would argue that if someone pulls out a gun and holds it to your head, that very act is inflicting harm on you even before they pull the trigger. There's a reason mock executions are considered a form of torture.

Similarly, Wizards merely stating their intentions have been harmful. People are reconsidering projects. Paizo and others are spending resources countering this move and establishing the ORC. Even without having released anything formally yet, they have cost the gaming community a lot.

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

They need to sell to keep existing, we do not need to buy to keep D&D existing.

All compromises must come from WotC side.

We need to shout this from the mountain tops!

To those who don't already know: We have the game, we can can continue to play Dungeons and Dragons without chasing the Dragon.