Why Won't Some People Play Spellcasters?

[Zweischneid]

In general, few people read. Many of the books sold at B&N or Amazon never get opened. They just lie there. A super-hot bestseller (not necessarily a proof of quality, but for the sake of argument...) is a "One Million Copies in Print" item. For a market of about 400 million (counting US, Canada and UK).

*shrug*

Well, I like to read, and I read about 2 novels and 1 non-fiction book a week. Ever 3rd or 4th fiction I read is a fantasy, science-fiction or at least historical.

You'll notice as well, that *casters* are fairly underepresented in fiction as the main protagonists and heroes. In fact, most of the time they tend to be either supporting cast or villains.

Also, the D&D melee/hybrid classes tend to come alot closer to emulating popular fiction characters. The D&D spells are just too 'out-there', far to wierd for anything you might normally find in a fantasy book.
(Hell, I've heard people on this board refer the LoTR as a 'low-magic-setting' and it's easily one of the most explicit high-magic worlds out there. You know, having talking Trees and Birds, shapeshifters and magic swords as well a big immortal villain, and all)

Again, anytime I get a new inspiration for a campaign from some novel, the first thing I do is houserule or disallow huge chunks of D&D magic. They just feel too much like videogames or wargames, not like fantasy.

 

[Li Shenron]

I don't particularly like to play spellcasters because I dislike the Vancian System and the Arcane/Divne split. They're both too limiting.

If I want to be an Fire Mage, then I have to either find a PrC in some supplement or just be an Evoker. Either way, I'd have to spend hours staring at my spellbook and deciding whether I'd rather have Flaming sphere or Searing ray. I'd rather have a system where I can invest a few points in fire magic and have access to both.

As written, the rules allow neither deviation within the spellcasting classes, nor an easy method of making new and unique ones.

First, have you tried playing a Sorcerer? It's still arcane, but at least you get rid of the "vancian magic". Otherwise, you could try the UA spontaneous clerics and druids.

Second, I see your point about the limitation for spellcasters... In theory, there's a LARGE RANGE of making spellcasters different within the core classes, by choosing completely different spells known (or prepared, for the divine classes). Unfortunately, with a game too often focused on combat only, and balanced with that in mind, the risk of falling into the same choices is sometimes high.

 

[arscott]

Switching from the Wizard to the Sorcerer Isn't going to help, even if you beef up its power. The problem lies with Tensers Floating Disk.

Not that spell specifically, but that entire class of spells. The flavorful ones that you'll rarely have a use for. If you're a wizard, then you know the spell. But because there's not a very big chance it's going to be useful, you're not going to memorize it. And if you're a sorcerer, you don't know it at all. you spent your spells known on burning hands, shield, and magic missile. The only time a spell like that is going to be used is when the party makes camp next to some obsticle, and the wizard know's it's going to be usefull in the morning. Contrast this to wizards from legend and fantasy. Gandalf makes pinecones into fireworks. The Faculty of the Unseen University Cure their hangovers. And even Tenser's floating disk gets a few exciting uses (IIRC in The Wyvern's Spur, by Novak and Grubb. Probably the best FR book I've read).

 

[Thanee]

If everyone had the same opinion and the same likes and dislikes the whole world would be a lot less complicated...

Bye
Thanee

P.S. arscott: Take a look at the Warmage in Complete Arcane. Maybe that one suits your taste better.

 

[der_kluge]

I think in general I've seen people *tend* towards one set of classes or another. The excuse may be that "it's too complicated" but it could simply be that they aren't interested in them.

I tend towards sorcerers and clerics. I like them - I like having a lot of options available to stew over ever round. The more the better.

Some people like fighters. Some like rogues.

In our last group, it was generally assumed that so-and-so would probably play a fighter type, and whats-his-face was probably going to play a spellcaster. By the third campaign we'd pretty much predicted what everyone would be making.

Funny thing is, when we started our last campaign (the 4th), we all handed little sheets of paper to the DM with our class intentions. We did this to avoid the arbitrary "Oh, we have a cleric and a rogue, I'd better make a fighter" mentality that's so pervasive. So, we wrote down our first choice on paper and let the DM tell us if the combination was going to work or not. He got 3 rogues, a bard, and a sorcerer! (I was the sorcerer).

 

[Li Shenron]

Switching from the Wizard to the Sorcerer Isn't going to help, even if you beef up its power. The problem lies with Tensers Floating Disk.

Not that spell specifically, but that entire class of spells. The flavorful ones that you'll rarely have a use for. If you're a wizard, then you know the spell. But because there's not a very big chance it's going to be useful, you're not going to memorize it. And if you're a sorcerer, you don't know it at all. you spent your spells known on burning hands, shield, and magic missile. The only time a spell like that is going to be used is when the party makes camp next to some obsticle, and the wizard know's it's going to be usefull in the morning.

It's true at low levels. If you manage to resist until level 5-6, the frustration becomes less as the wizards has more spells/day and scribing is cheaper, or as the sorcerer gets to take a breath on slightly more spells. I have played a sorcerer up to level 11 and she only has 3 straight-damaging spells for example.

Maybe the key is in keeping part of your spell arsenal for "must have spells" like defensive/offensive/broken and the rest for utility spells, accepting you'll be using them more rarely.
Clearly, if a player starts believing that Fireball is NEVER enough "because sometimes monsters are immune to fire", you can say the same about any spell and never think your character has all she needs. But the question is... do you really need to?

 

[DragonLancer]

I like playing sorcerers and mystics (cleric version from the DLCS), because I don't have to decide spells in advance, and so I can just fire off what I need when I need it.

I have nothing against the other spellcasting classes but having to pick spells that may or maynot be useful to the group is a pain in the ass. Not for picking them, but for the fact that in any given session or adventure they may not be worth using.

 

[beaver1024]

The quick answer is that arcane spellcasters are weak. You have to play them a certain way (ie min/max) or else they're useless. Who wants to play a class that takes a lot of time in customisation only to have them die in the first volley of kobold crossbow bolts? Who wants to play a class that you can only play a certain way or else they're useless?

I know my players especially loathe to play the wizards because the player end up twidlling their thumbs with their Detect Magic/Identify prepared while their party is being cut to pieces. Just because they predicted incorrectly that they were going to a quiet laboratory to investigate a piece of magical equipment only to be ambushed.

Most of my games takes place between 1 - 12th level and at those levels, nobody wants to play a character who's limited ability to help the party comes to no effect most of the time.

 

[DragonLancer]

I know my players especially loathe to play the wizards because the player end up twidlling their thumbs with their Detect Magic/Identify prepared while their party is being cut to pieces. Just because they predicted incorrectly that they were going to a quiet laboratory to investigate a piece of magical equipment only to be ambushed.

Thats what scribe scroll and craft wand is for.

 

[beaver1024]

Thats what scribe scroll and craft wand is for.

They don't always have the time/money/exp to do that. Especially not at 1st level. Additionally scrolls and wands are terrible for storing offensive spells because of the minimum save DCs.