Why would a fighter-mage not choose the Spellsword?

No, he's not kidding. Or at least, he needn't be. My Living Greyhawk character took a spellsword level, but, when I thought about it, there were only two occasions between levels 1 (when he couldn't cast spells) and 9 (where he took Spellsword) where he defeated a foe without using magic or having it active--one was a ridiculously easy fight with some ghouls and the other was in a tournament where magic was forbidden. (I guess I'm not including the would-be mugger commoners who he killed with combat reflexes in a surprise round but they shouldn't count).

A fighter/mage's combat style generally relies upon gaining a synergy between his spells and combat ability. (Also, with the amount of buffing that goes on in D&D, very few characters past second level or so actually defeat foes without any magical aid often).

In a home game, a DM might well require the foe to have been significant and the battle to have been recent--or he might well make it part of a test to join the spellsword guild and learn their secrets (a battle with a summoned monster--no spells allowed). I know I would certainly do one or the other of those things.

Saeviomagy said:
You're kidding, right? All it takes is a lucky crossbow bolt through a goblin...

None of which are really reasons not to take at least the first level of the class.
 

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- A Bladesinger would get delayed all Bladesinger abilities by one level. If their Int bonus is +4 or more, the first level of Bladesigner is better for AC than anything they can get for -10% ASF.
Bladesingers get 1 pt of int mod to AC per bladesinger level. One level of Bladesinger, one point of int mod to AC.

At 6th level they just ignore ASF for light armor all together, so *shrug*
 

Elder-Basilisk said:
No, he's not kidding. Or at least, he needn't be. My Living Greyhawk character took a spellsword level, but, when I thought about it, there were only two occasions between levels 1 (when he couldn't cast spells) and 9 (where he took Spellsword) where he defeated a foe without using magic or having it active--one was a ridiculously easy fight with some ghouls and the other was in a tournament where magic was forbidden. (I guess I'm not including the would-be mugger commoners who he killed with combat reflexes in a surprise round but they shouldn't count).
I don't see why they shouldn't count...

Simply put - if you intend taking this class, the prerequisite is very easy to meet.
In a home game, a DM might well require the foe to have been significant and the battle to have been recent--or he might well make it part of a test to join the spellsword guild and learn their secrets (a battle with a summoned monster--no spells allowed). I know I would certainly do one or the other of those things.
Well, that's changing the prerequisites. And I never did like the "no, you can't learn it on your own, you HAVE to join the guild because noone else knows their secrets and they kill anyone who teaches anyone else and they're super powerful and you can't do what they can so Neeeeyaaaahh!" school of thought.
 

Saeviomagy said:
Well, that's changing the prerequisites. And I never did like the "no, you can't learn it on your own, you HAVE to join the guild because noone else knows their secrets and they kill anyone who teaches anyone else and they're super powerful and you can't do what they can so Neeeeyaaaahh!" school of thought.

I know some "guilds" (a.k.a. dojos) in Rokugan that might disagree. In fact real life martial arts history mimics this "no one else knos their secrets" precisely.
 



Heck, I've been looking over the Spellsword as an option for an epic character, for use in the Exodus -- and that net "loss" of 5 more caster levels hurts. So much so that I've passed it over in favor of other things -- and I've got 25 levels to play with!

Spellsword is, IMO, much more for "fighter with a dash of spellcasting" than for "wizard who can (mostly) hold his own in melee".
 

If you like fighter-spellcasters, why not go with a cleric or druid? With the right spell/domain and feat selection, you can blast stuff almost as well as the best mage and be able to fight well too. The fact that divine spellcasting is not hampered by armor is also very helpful, and you'll spend less of your resources on attaining armor than you will when you need to get exotic stuff like mithral or darkwood. At high levels, you need all the caster levels you can get to overcome the spell resistance of really tough critters anyway. It really stinks when you have an 25% chance or less of even affecting a pit fiend with some groovy spell only to be disappointed when you fail to penetrate the thing's spell resistance, and even then it might just make its saving throw anyway. That is often just plain no fun. So, while it may be less sexy, going with a cleric or druid will probably enable you to be more effective all around and the way you play your character can also give you the "feel" or style you want- like a swashbuckling cleric of olidamarra, a knight of heironeus, or a native-american shaman-type druid that likes bows. If you have the magic domain you can also use wands or scrolls so that you can have that more traditional wizard feel. Just my 2 bits...
 


Key thing to note about Spellsword prerequisites:

  • A candidate for Spellsword must have proficiency with all simple & martial weapons, as well as proficiency with all forms of armor (light, medium, & heavy). They must also be able to cast 2nd level arcane spells.
  • Bards & hexblades can cast their spells while wearing light armor with no penalty, so the lower levels of Spellsword won't really be that useful for them. Besides, mithral medium armors count as light armor, so bards wouldn't have to worry about that. Hexblades start off with light armor proficiency only, so they'd have to burn 2 feats in order to qualify for this PrC.
  • This prestige class works best for fighter-mage combos who don't really have very high Dex scores (maybe a 16 Dex at best). With 9-10 levels in Spellsword, a spellsword wearing mithral full plate has no ASF chance; the mithral would decrease the ASF from 35% to 25%, and the max Dex bonus allowed jumps up from +1 to +3. It's the best combination for the class abilities---otherwise, the required Heavy Armor proficiency goes unused.
  • The only non-mage classes that can qualify a character for this PrC is fighter or paladin (or the samurai from Complete Warrior). Clerics lack the prerequisite proficiency with all martial weapons; barbarians lack proficiency with heavy armor; rangers lack proficiency with medium & heavy armor.

So, the immediately viable class combos to qualify for a Spellsword are:
  • fighter/wizards
  • fighter/sorcerers
  • paladin/wizards
  • paladin/sorcerers

Above all, the fighter/wizards & fighter/sorcerers work out fine either way (one casts a greater variety of spells, while the other casts a greater volume of spells). The paladin/sorcerer is more preferable than the paladin/wizard, since the Charisma requirement for his/her sorcerer spells would add in to his/her Cha-based paladin abilities (like the saving throw bonuses & lay on hands ability).

But, the price for a spellsword is that he/she will not be able to cast 9th level spells (and possibly 7th- & 8th-level spells) without going epic. You can channel a spell through a weapon strike a couple of times a day, you'll be better off than a straight fighter-mage multiclass (higher effective spellcaster level, plus no need to memorize/cast a lot of spells with the Still Spell feat & eat up higher-level slots for lower-level spells), but you'll still not be as powerful as a pure mage. An eldritch knight will be able to cast higher-level spells than a Spellsword without going epic, but the eldritch knight candidate has to cast 3rd-level arcane spells (& not just 2nd-level) will still need to prep with Still Spell in order to cast spells in armor.

An elven or half-elven bladesinger is a racially-specific alternative to the Spellsword--it's best suited for lightly-armored agile characters. The best class combo for a bladesinger is, IMHO, a swashbuckler/wizard (using the Swashbuckler core class from Complete Warrior). The Intelligence requirements for wizard spells stacks exquisitely with the Int-based precise strike ability of the swashbuckler, and the Int-based AC bonus of the bladesinger. And, this class combo really complements a high Dex character, because 6th level bladesingers have ASF in light armor, and the Weapon Focus (rapier) works wonderfully with the free Weapon Finesse feat gained by swashbucklers at 1st level. With a swashbuckler/wizard/bladedancer, you need only worry about having a high Int & Dex--with a bard/bladesinger, you'd need a high Dex, Int, & Cha.

I will say one thing, though--IMHO, I think that a bard is a much better option for an arcane archer than any sort of fighter-mage combo. It may take a bard a level more than a fighter-mage combo, but the bard can cast his/her spells in light armor, as well as have higher level spells available than a straight fighter-mage candidate.

Now all there needs to be is a sort of mystic theurge-kinda class that also grants ASF reduction or the like, & there'll be some pretty tough cleric/sorcerer combos out there. :cool:
 

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