Why would a frost giant have a frost weapon?

green slime said:
Don't flatter yourself, the major problem wasn't any attack on "preconceived notions". It was calling people lazy (the designers), blatant untruths (no glaciers on Iceland?!?) , and an inability to realise how claiming that YOUR campaign was more "realistic" than others could actually rile people. You did not happen to shake any preconcieved notions, at all.

I still feel that a world where fire melts ice is more realistic than one where it doesn't.

As for the whole glaciers on iceland thing, that's matter of some debate. A glacier is supposedly a permanent body of ice and snow, right? Those few tiny "glaciers" on Iceland melt away whenever they get a particularly long and hot summer. This last happened in the summer of 1997, when the majority of "glaciers" melted away completely. What scattered remains where left by the fall of -97 could barely have covered a football field...

Lastly, if you read through my posts you'll see I never called anyone lazy!
 

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As it were...

On page 185 of Frostburn there is an example Frost Giant (5th level fighter) who's possesions include a +2 Huge Thundering Greataxe.

Go figure! :D

T and J from Three Haligonians
 

Jolly Giant said:
I still feel that a world where fire melts ice is more realistic than one where it doesn't.

Did anyone contradict you on this little fact?

Jolly Giant said:
As for the whole glaciers on iceland thing, that's matter of some debate. A glacier is supposedly a permanent body of ice and snow, right? Those few tiny "glaciers" on Iceland melt away whenever they get a particularly long and hot summer. This last happened in the summer of 1997, when the majority of "glaciers" melted away completely. What scattered remains where left by the fall of -97 could barely have covered a football field...

You have heard of global warming? The melting of the Ice sheet in the Antartic? The retreat of glaciers worldwide? All glaciers have shrunk. Every single one of them. Everywhere. Compared to just 50 years ago. Global warming is a fact.

You may have heard of Kilimanjaro, a mountain, in Africa, near the Equator. Snow-covered all year round.... Don't tell me the equator is chilly. Or that it is impossible to walk from tropical forest to glacier in a few short days (You have to take it slow or you will suffer altitude sickness!)

Kilimanjaro's melting

The glaciers of iceland didn't disappear in '97 because of volcanic activity... You originally stated unequivocally that they had none, (not that they just had a bad year ´97) and you implied it was due to the volcanic activity of the island!

There are mountains in the Abor'ahlz range in Iran that are snow covered all year round. Is Iran particularly reknown for its chilly climate? In spring in Teheran you can walk from 28 degrees centigrade, sunshine and roses to -10 degrees and meter deep snow and back in a few hours.
 

Jolly Giant said:
Couldn't agree more! I'm completely stunned by what this thread has turned into. It's amazing how angry people can get if you happen to shake their preconcieved notions. :eek:

Like the preconceived notion Iceland, Kilimanjaro, etc. cannot exist, because it isn't realistic.

Also, you can't have both a fridge and an oven in the same room, because, you see, fire melts ice. If you contradict me, if you say nothing prevents a fridge and an oven to be in the same room, then I'll just roll my eyes and say it's amazing how angry people can get if you happen to shake their preconceived notions.
rolleyes.gif
 

Well done, you've all convinced me.

I'm giving up role play.

Really. I see that the origninal post wasn't intended to be controversial. I disagreed with it, but didn't reply, cos my game is my game. What I do in it is for the players. With different players I might do it different.

The Following 8 pages? Just seemed like post after post of people who wanted an argument, interspaced with the occasional valid point.

I reckon if I was really willing to do it, I could go through this thread and pull the valid, on topic stuff together and make maybe 500 words (assuming I don't use second posts backing up first ones, or all 500 words of a post that makes a good point).

Common sense isn't common. A lot of people have proven that in this thread (most notably me, cos I got so frustrated I had to post and tell you).

Do what ya gotta do.
 



Woo hoo! I want to join in. Like somebody else, I'd like to have a campaign world that is "realistic" or at least "rational". Now lots of thigns are in the rules that might confilict with this goal the way you see things. The choices are to either change it to something you think is better or come up with a rationale for them. If you change them, great. PCs don't need to be reading the MM and arguing with you on what goes on in your world anyway. I think the intial question is valid, why should various elemental based creatures always use like attacks? Here's some of my rationales:

1. In the case of extra planar creatures, they probalby have like elemental weapons and attacks because everything from their plane is made of the stuff. Sure a fire elemental might have a sword of fire, his butter knife is probably a +1 flame tounge also. Also, keeping things that aren't of like elemental types in such a harsh environment might be hard too.

2. It may be due to the manufacture of such items. Although the method for manufacturing such items described in the rules calls for a certain amount of gold and XP, it's doubtful if the maker of the magic time absorbs all teh gold peices into the magic item. Instead they're used to buy materials and services needed to work the magics to make such an item whch are reduced to a price in the rules to simplify things. It may be that the makers of such items have more access to the raw materials needed to create such cold based items than the materials needed for normal or fire weapons. So, while the "objective" price of such an item may be higher, it may actually be cheaper to make alike item because getting the resources to make other types would cost more due to regional supply and demand.

3. Their main adversaries aren't like typed creatures. Cold giants may be surrounded by cold creatures, but those creatures really aren't their main cause for concern. All the creatures that are dangerous to them in the region have been "cleared' long ago and what needs to be dealt with are "mosnters' from other areas. When they go raiding, do they raid the snow bunnies warrens*, or do they head down into the human lands and raid the local villages and caravans? Simply put, they have liked based weapons because they actually do spend more time fighting opposed type creatures.

4. Religions and culture. Anybody can justify just about anything by saying "this is how things have always been as long as they have been passed down from father to son since the begining of time". Of course, then somebody breaks tradion, comes up with a new technology or tactic and wins the battle or war. Then everybody else plays catch up. So, either their is no advantage to such a change or they haven't come to that change yet (see 5). A DM could always play a campaign where such a tactical revolution is taking place and an army with superior weapons are forming an empire.

5. The spell caster with the recipe graduated.

*In my world snow bunnies are horrible 8' creatures with huge, sharp fangs with cold attacks that can bite your head off whole. They also enjoy riddles and will grant safe passage for carrots.
 


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