TSR Why would anyone want to play 1e?

[Bill Zebub]

In other news, in order to appeal to a new generation of gamers, the 2025 Edition of Chutes and Ladders will include only Ladders, no Chutes.

 

[Willie the Duck]

Level drain seems to be one of those sacred cows of early editions that people either love or loathe, depending upon their perspective on what RPGs are all about.

Interestingly, I think (TSR-era) D&D is 'about' easy-come/easy-go advancement and setbacks, and keeping PCs in a goldilocks zone of playability while still handing out demarcation of accomplishment is laudable and all that; yet I dislike energy drain. That despite enjoying rust monsters and ghost-aging and attribute damage and any number of other things as well.

The granularity/book-keeping of modifying xp totals is part of it. Differences in perspective on how much warning/opportunity to avoid draining enemies is another (rolled up with save-or-dies and killer traps and killer DMs and all that). I think the biggest problem that energy drain has came in 1975 with the addition of the Restoration spell. Now any time one is drained, but fail to get the effects reversed (before a time limit, or by the point where the xp recovered are immaterial) can be seen as a failure. Mind you, you can say the same thing about raise dead and any character you don't bring back, but the alternative there is a new character around the next corner. Get an item rusted/slimed -- easy come, easy go (learn and move on). Lose a character -- 3d6 down the line or 4d6b3, etc. Get level drained -- clock is started now stress out and rush to a name-level cleric. All of which would be fine if level drain was a consistent and rare thing like curses and mummy rot -- the game is half quest for more loot and half quest to undo messes you've made. However, those show up rarely enough to be plot hooks/memorable plot points. Energy drain is a quality held by like half of undead.

PS: Some RPGs do not have levels at all, but use skills or powers of some sort to distinguish and develop characters, so those games would need some completely different way to model the horror trope of powerful undead draining people’s life force.

It's all completely beholden to D&D and the norms it sets out around advancement, permanence, and consequence. Once you move out of D&D it's a wide open field with all sorts of possibilities. Call of Cthulhu and Symbaroum and Blade in the Dark have permanent ability damage as a normal character lifespan elements. Warhammer Fantasy has a non-linear level of slow accumulation of injuries. Moving over to computer games Ultima I had no concept of max hp. And so on.

 

[Bill Zebub]

PS: Some RPGs do not have levels at all, but use skills or powers of some sort to distinguish and develop characters, so those games would need some completely different way to model the horror trope of powerful undead draining people’s life force.

It's a pretty rare game that doesn't have some kind of scores and attributes that could be drained. E.g., in The One Ring there are no levels, but in addition to skills you still have Strength, Heart, Wits, Valour, Wisdom, Hope....

 

[Sacrosanct]

In other news, in order to appeal to a new generation of gamers, the 2025 Edition of Chutes and Ladders will include only Ladders, no Chutes.

I don't think this is entirely helpful. And it's not really true. From day 1, streamlining and removing rules to appeal to newer gamers has been a thing, as evidenced by the basic versions of the game.

Also, can you please make your point without making denigrating comments about newer players please? I started in 1981 so I'm hardly new, but I play with newer players, including Shadowdark and 5e games, and none of them are these fragile complainers you keep inferring they are. It's not helpful, and only paints us older gamers in a bad light. We have a bad enough reputation as it is.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I don't think this is entirely helpful. And it's not really true. From day 1, streamlining and removing rules to appeal to newer gamers has been a thing, as evidenced by the basic versions of the game.

Well, to be fair, I was trying for "funny" over both "helpful" and "true"....

 

[Sacrosanct]

Today I half expect people to quit the game if it happens.

("But you tell that to kids nowadays and they don't believe you...")

. I suspect to a lot of modern D&D players that seems like a jerk move for the GM.

(Not that many 5e players would even understand why that's a thing. "Huh? Who uses light?")

Well, to be fair, I was trying for "funny" over both "helpful" and "true"....

TBH, I didn't find it funny at all, largely based on your earlier comments (see above). You've got a theme going about assumptions about other players that isn't all that funny.

 

[haakon1]

Because of level draining, I always keep old copies of character sheets. You never know, and that makes it much easier.

Players hate losing stuff - gear or levels.

But to me, scenarios where PC’s are captured are the worst in terms of player reaction.

 

[Bill Zebub]

TBH, I didn't find it funny at all, largely based on your earlier comments (see above). You've got a theme going about assumptions about other players that isn't all that funny.

I'll be here all week, folks!

 

[Bill Zebub]

Because of level draining, I always keep old copies of character sheets. You never know, and that makes it much easier.

Oh! Not only does that make a lot of practical sense, but there's something about replacing the character sheet with an older version that feels like level drain. I love it.

I've always wanted to roleplay a PC getting amnesia by not telling the player they have amnesia, and instead secretly telling all the other players to start calling the amnesiac character by a different name, with a different backstory, and acting puzzled when the player wants to know what's going on.

 

[Mannahnin]

Back when I was playing AD&D regularly we established it as best practice to record HP rolls each level, just in case of level drain.