TSR Why would anyone want to play 1e?

[DammitVictor]

It's also easy to make a bigger deal out of half-orcs and assassins being removed from the PHB and devils and demons being removed from the MCs/MM... but removing monks and psionic powers (for PCs and monsters) from the core rules are even more indicative of the shift in AD&D's identity between 1E and 2E.

Whereas I'd argue that Classic pretty much stayed the same from Moldvay Basic all the way through Wrath of the Immortals and Thunder Rift and was tighter and better designed than either edition of Advanced, except for 2E getting so much more material and naturally more better material if you were willing to sift through the dross. Or do the work of using 2E's homebrewing tools for all they're worth.

(Which is what made it a better ruleset for a high prep wannabe  auteur like myself, and worse for people who want to run a no frills game in the lingua franca.)

 

[Voadam]

The biggest source of xp in 2e was defeating monsters. My memory is that the story xp stuff was optional.

Following up on this.

2e DMG page 68:

The story award should not be greater than the experience points that can be earned defeating the monsters encountered during the adventure. Thus if the DM knows there are roughly 1,200 experience points worth of monsters, the story award should not exceed this amount.
The story award should give a character no more than 1⁄10th the experience points he needs to advance a level.

Page 69:

As an option, the DM can award XP for the cash value of non-magical treasures. One XP can be given per gold piece found. However, overuse of this option can increase the tendency to give out too much treasure in the campaign.

 

[GreyLord]

Following up on this.

2e DMG page 68:

The story award should not be greater than the experience points that can be earned defeating the monsters encountered during the adventure. Thus if the DM knows there are roughly 1,200 experience points worth of monsters, the story award should not exceed this amount.
The story award should give a character no more than 1⁄10th the experience points he needs to advance a level.

Page 69:

As an option, the DM can award XP for the cash value of non-magical treasures. One XP can be given per gold piece found. However, overuse of this option can increase the tendency to give out too much treasure in the campaign.

We still used Gold for XP in 2e. It was stupid not too. Unless one uses the completely arbitrary story awards which have no real basis (IMO) of what standard to really rely on except DM judgement and the "feel" of it in an analogous way to some suggestions, levelling is slowed down to a snails pace in 2e comparatively to other editions without the Gold for XP option.

We didn't use story awards (often).

Overall, though, with that, 2e core was really just a cleaned up 1e. With the inclusion (for those who read it) of the Grandfather clause (everything in 1e was grandfathered into 2e, thus 2e also was ALL of 1e with you being able to pick and choose which rule to use if they conflicted), the core rules of 2e were basically just a version of 1e.

The problem for me is with all the additions that came in and made it overly complicated or broken (many of the complete books, Spells and Powers, etc). That's what is the real division between what some 2e players love and 1e.

I love the 2e core rules for some of the things they made easier and simpler (I actually really like 2e's take on THACO and I prefer the 2e initiative rules for example).

However, throwing everything in 2e and the kitchen sink (all the supplements and other rule additions) made 2e overly large and burdensome to handle.

That right there is one big reason to prefer 1e. Even with all the 1e hardback rulebooks you had far less to know and remember than if you had all the 2e rulebooks at the table.

 

[Lanefan]

That right there is one big reason to prefer 1e. Even with all the 1e hardback rulebooks you had far less to know and remember than if you had all the 2e rulebooks at the table.

Each edition changed quite a bit between the start and end of its run. Comparing at-release 1e with at-release 2e is IMO valid, as is comparing end-of run 1e with end-of run 2e.

For me the most jarring difference netween 1e (both as-written and our homebrew version) and 2e was 2e's IMO needless sanitization and blandifying; it seems TSR thought so too, as 2e became - relatively - steadily less sanitized as its era went on.

 

[Mannahnin]

1E is still the unparalleled best game design in RPGs. I think there are a number of flaws in it and it can certainly be improved upon, but the entire endeavor was quit with 2e. This made very obvious with the edition change rancor, more than any other change in RPG history.

Wat. There was a substantial faction of 1E players who didn't bother transitioning to 2E, some of whom complained about the removal of demons and assassins and apparent kowtowing of TSR to what Jim Ward called the "Angry Mothers from Heck", but there was much less rancor than the edition wars of the 2000s. Of course, the edition wars were enabled to get as big as they were thanks to widespread adoption of forums and other social media by then. There was a much larger teapot to have a tempest in. Back when I was discussing D&D online in the late 80s and early 90s on Prodigy and local dial-in BBSs, the enthusiasm over being able to talk with fellow gamers more immediately than in Dragon letters or at conventions was the predominant note. Rancor over the edition change was just not as big a thing as it would be later.

Story gaming didn't really even start until the 90s and the divided community. It was a sorry time in gaming. I think most everything people think is RPGs today is the anti-rpg hobby started at the turn of the millennium. If you want to have the actual strategic simulation game played in your imagination that D&D is, one's best option will always remain AD&D.

Ars Magica and Whimsy Cards came out in 1987. Ars Magica including even more Story Game concepts than Vampire did a few years later. The 90s were in some ways the silver age for RPGs; TSR's reduced dominance opened market space for more games and for gamers to be willing to try a lot of other systems. White Wolf's Storyteller most obviously, but other systems like GURPS saw a ton of table time in my groups. And cheap desktop publishing allowed for a proliferation of new ideas to get shared in printed form.