TSR Why would anyone want to play 1e?

[GreyLord]

3e also made ascending math harder because different attacks had different bonuses. So you really couldn't do something like a pre-made THAC0 chart.

That's a Great point about 3e. 5e no longer does that, but with 3e, once you got high enough level, each attack also included subtraction, and eventually variable subtraction as well as adding.

You could add, but then you'd need to do a -5, than a -10, and with some classes eventually a -15.

That's on top of everything else, which would make 3e and 3.5 far more complex than THAC0 if one is talking about how much longer it takes them to do subtraction vs. addition (which has never been a problem for me, I do each equally as fast).

With THAC0 you didn't have that additional math when you had multiple attacks, with the exclusion of Two-Weapon Fighting. However, you had that same application in 3e and 3.5 as well if we go that route. Two-Weapon Fighting still had it's penalties in 3.X, though with the Improved Two Weapon-Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, and Epic Two-Weapon Fighting that ability would eventually double up in regards to the Math that you had to do, then triple and quadruple...thus making even that more complicated.

Edit: For me, its not so much the addition and subtraction, but that it makes the game feel differently. In addition, despite what some say, addition is not the same as subtraction. This is why it makes things feel differently to me.

If you make 50K a year, and I say add 50K on top of that...you'll now have 100K. If I say give me 50K and I take it from you, you'll now have 0 left.

It may be reverse math, and you can sometimes get to similar spots if you twist the math correctly, but addition and subtraction (and tables) are ultimately two different things and thus can feel different when applied in a game system to some people.

 

[billd91]

3e also made ascending math harder because different attacks had different bonuses. So you really couldn't do something like a pre-made THAC0 chart.

Honestly, you could. You'd just have a line for your first attack, one for your second, then third, then fourth to incorporate the different bonuses.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Someone should just replace bonuses and minuses with rolling twice and taking the best result when you've got more bonus effects than negatives or taking the worst result when you have more negatives than bonuses. That would probably streamline things.

 

[Voadam]

In short: there's just too many on-the-fly variables to allow such a chart to be useful.

I find it useful to have as many constant modifiers already factored in and only adjust for the few applicable situational modifiers than to have to factor in all the modifiers separately each time.

1e THAC0 as a single number is workable (say the monster stat appendix in the 1e DMG).

I find the 1e DMG/DM screen attack matrix with the roll needed for every AC spelled out more useful.

I find the later 1e sheets with entries for every weapon with applicable constant modifiers already factored in against different ACs even more useful.

 

[James Gasik]

Someone should just replace bonuses and minuses with rolling twice and taking the best result when you've got more bonus effects than negatives or taking the worst result when you have more negatives than bonuses. That would probably streamline things.

Sure, but then what happens with multiple bonuses or penalties? And do you use this "dice doubling" for small, situational modifiers like higher ground or large ones such as making a called shot to hit an enemy's hand?

 

[Moving Pictures]

I have a chart on my DM screen showing how well each class and level fights as (3e would call this a BAB chart); using that, all I have to do is take the player's roll + bonuses, add their fight level (BAB), and apply any DM-side modifiers (see above re curses etc.).

Same here, except I simply refer to it as equivalent fighter level.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Sure, but then what happens with multiple bonuses or penalties? And do you use this "dice doubling" for small, situational modifiers like higher ground or large ones such as making a called shot to hit an enemy's hand?

For simplicity's sake, I would just count up the bonuses and count up the penalties, and just go with whichever is higher.