Why would this NPC give up his claim to the throne?

NewJeffCT

First Post
The players in my campaign have entered what remains of a large human empire. About 90 years before my campaign started, this empire (which was generally good) ruled most of the continent.

After a large-scale hobgoblin invasion that was repelled those 90 years ago, the weakened empire splintered into four parts over the next few years, and has remained splintered since. Three of the four parts have managed to become separate viable nations on their own, including one nation that still retains the old hereditary king that ruled the empire; though his nation is now only one fourth the size of the empire his great grandfather ruled 90s years earlier.

However, the players are in the one part that has not become a viable nation. The one part the PCs are in now is currently ruled by nearly 30 separate warlords because of 70 years of civil war that followed the splintering. Some of these warlords are good, some neutral, and some evil.

The PCs believe the prophecy they heard would have this war-torn land (“WTL”) reunite with the original empire & hereditary old king to form a stronger defense against another hobgoblin incursion.

My main problem is one of the warlords is dead-set against reuniting with the old king and empire. He is a L/G paladin, and his son and heir, is also a L/G paladin. He is also easily the most powerful warlord, though he is not strong enough to claim the throne of the entire WTL.

When the PCs enter this Duke’s territory, his capitol will be under siege from an evil warlord/blackguard who has managed to unite the gnolls and beasts of the nearby savannahs under his rule to form a powerful evil army.

While the PCs helping to lift the siege would be a great help, I do not think it would be enough for a paladin to suddenly renounce his lifelong dream of a united WTL under his rule (or, more likely, his son’s rule.) I would also prefer not to have the Duke killed “off camera” during the siege, and rescuing a captured daughter from the BBEG seems cliché. And, some mysterious figure appearing that has a superior claim to the throne beyond the paladin also seems a bit out there as well.

I was hoping for some deeds of valor from the PCs, coupled with some good role-playing, though I am open to just about anything.

Please let me know if more info is needed. The PCs should be around level 12 or 13 in a 3.5E campaign when they arrive in the Duke’s territory.

Any ideas?

Thanks
 
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I've read this a few times and I think I'm missing something (I could just be dumb though, don't put it past me).

I think it's these parts - they are conflicting to me...

My main problem is one of the warlords is dead-set against reuniting with the old king and empire.

and

I do not think it would be enough for a paladin to suddenly renounce his lifelong dream of a united WTL under his rule (or, more likely, his son’s rule.)

On the one hand it's a lifelong dream, but on the other he is dead set against it?

Can you clarify, or shake my head violently? Whatever it takes to help me understand, hehe (love the idea of the various kingdoms etc btw - sounds fun!)
 

I've read this a few times and I think I'm missing something (I could just be dumb though, don't put it past me).

I think it's these parts - they are conflicting to me...



and



On the one hand it's a lifelong dream, but on the other he is dead set against it?

Can you clarify, or shake my head violently? Whatever it takes to help me understand, hehe (love the idea of the various kingdoms etc btw - sounds fun!)

I *think* he's saying that the paladin is dead set against reuiniting the lands under the rule of the original rule's decendants (who is currently ruling one of the other four splinters of the original domain). He instead wants to reunite the lands under his _own_ son.

--------------------------
As for NewJeffCt's question ....

There has to be something at stake that the paladin wants MORE than the rule.
Could he be bought off? Doubtful
Is there something (other than money) that he could want? A powerful magic item? A new home on another plane? Etc.

From a roleplay aspect, maybe someone brings to the paladin's attention that while his few men might be loyal, no one else wants to be under his rule. This will be a blow to his ego but after some initial shock he may see that it would just lead to a coup if he ever did take the throne.

Maybe the 'original line' offers to have his younger daughter marry the paladin's son as an offer of truce. It was done in our own history many times for the sake of peace. Now this daughter is a younger daughter and is not the queen-to-be (she has older siblings), so the paladin's son would have prestige but little actual power.

hmm... will keep thinking but those are the ideas off the top of my head so far.
 

The PCs believe the prophecy they heard would have this war-torn land (“WTL”) reunite with the original empire & hereditary old king to form a stronger defense against another hobgoblin incursion.

My main problem is one of the warlords is dead-set against reuniting with the old king and empire. He is a L/G paladin, and his son and heir, is also a L/G paladin. He is also easily the most powerful warlord, though he is not strong enough to claim the throne of the entire WTL.

When the PCs enter this Duke’s territory, his capitol will be under siege from an evil warlord/blackguard who has managed to unite the gnolls and beasts of the nearby savannahs under his rule to form a powerful evil army.

While the PCs helping to lift the siege would be a great help, I do not think it would be enough for a paladin to suddenly renounce his lifelong dream of a united WTL under his rule (or, more likely, his son’s rule.) I would also prefer not to have the Duke killed “off camera” during the siege, and rescuing a captured daughter from the BBEG seems cliché. And, some mysterious figure appearing that has a superior claim to the throne beyond the paladin also seems a bit out there as well.

I was hoping for some deeds of valor from the PCs, coupled with some good role-playing, though I am open to just about anything.

Please let me know if more info is needed. The PCs should be around level 12 or 13 in a 3.5E campaign when they arrive in the Duke’s territory.

Any ideas?

Thanks

It may be cliche, could you manuver the paladin to make some kind of "deal with the devil" that allows him to save the land but forces him to renounce his lordship? Something that would challenge his principles to the point where he would no longer be fit to rule?

Somewhere I see the makings of a PCs v. Duke's son rivalry in there.
 

I *think* he's saying that the paladin is dead set against reuiniting the lands under the rule of the original rule's decendants (who is currently ruling one of the other four splinters of the original domain). He instead wants to reunite the lands under his _own_ son.

ahHA! Thank you!

So probably my bad... told you, I can be a little dense.
 

I've read this a few times and I think I'm missing something (I could just be dumb though, don't put it past me).

I think it's these parts - they are conflicting to me...



and



On the one hand it's a lifelong dream, but on the other he is dead set against it?

Can you clarify, or shake my head violently? Whatever it takes to help me understand, hehe (love the idea of the various kingdoms etc btw - sounds fun!)

Sorry for the confusion. The paladin wants to unite the war torn land under his rule and have it become a viable nation alongside the other three viable nations. The PCs believe that the prophecy they have read would have this war-torn land reunite with the nation that once ruled nearly the entire continent.

To use real countries as an example, let's say that the medieval era Holy Roman Empire was invaded by France. (Please note, this is not actual history, just using real world names to make it easier.) While they managed to drive the invaders off, the weakened HRE fell apart over time, with the original HRE centered on Swabia. The other territories were Saxony, Brandenburg and Bavaria. Swabia remained a viable nation, and Saxony & Brandenburg develop into viable nations as well. However, Bavaria fell into disarray and has warred for the last 70 years.

Bavaria is now ruled 30 different warlords, of which this paladin is the most powerful. The paladin wants to unite Bavaria under his banner and have Bavaria become a viable nation on its own. He is dead set against reuniting with Swabia, however. (Various lords both good & bad want an independent Bavaria, reunification with Swabia, uniting with Saxony or Brandenburg, or even (gasp) throwing in with France...)

The PCs believe the prophecy would have them reunite all of Bavaria with Swabia, and this would lead to Saxony & Brandenburg eventually reuniting as well.

I hope that was clearer than mud.
 

as fba827 was saying concerning wht the paladin might want more, maybe you could give him an oppurtunity to recover some long lost magical artifact in return for the throne of the kingdom or have some divine intervention from his god or a celestial paragon, or even an angel or archon.
 

as fba827 was saying concerning wht the paladin might want more, maybe you could give him an oppurtunity to recover some long lost magical artifact in return for the throne of the kingdom or have some divine intervention from his god or a celestial paragon, or even an angel or archon.

Yes, I need to come up with something like that...he would likely want his son to have a chance at the throne.
 

so you could have his god give him an opportunity to have his son and not himself on the throne in exchange for a chance for him to live on the plane where his god is. you could also use that as another adventure hook as your PCs try to help reunite the four lands together again. you could also factor the warlord in again as a benefactor to the PCs, assuming they had some part in the deal between the paladin and his god.
 

Is it completely necessary that the war torn nation be united with the old heritage nation? I believe you said the PC's believe that is what the prophecy would have them do, so obviously this doesn't -have- to be the outcome. Say the old heritage sends the PC's as emissaries, they report back that the Paladin is by far the more powerful and best candidate, the old heritage sends them back with the proposal that as long as the Paladin will lend his swords, he'll back the Paladin's cause and help him unite the war torn land under the Paladin's own banner. There could also be the bonus of the old heritage offering a daughter to the Paladins son in hopes to unite the two nations in the future. Or, there is always the option of kidnapping the Paladins son, holding him for ransom. Test the PC's morality. How far will they go to bring about their prophecy?
 

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