Why would this NPC give up his claim to the throne?

[Mistah J]

My first thought here is that as a paladin, your would-be-ruler is (or at least should IMO) put the needs of the greater good in front of his own. That said, if the PCs can convince him that joining with the original kingdom does just that, then he should be ok with it.

I also want to second the notion of marrying the paladin's son to an heiress of the original kingdom. When talking about the prophecy in question, you use the word "united". That doesn't have to mean your WTL must fall under original kingdom rule does it?

Could your original kingdom not offer the paladin supplies, troops, and assistance in uniting the WTL in return for an alliance to help deal with your hobgoblins?

 

[Quartz]

Have the PCs engineer a meeting between the son and the old king's granddaughter and play matchmaker. Maybe she's sent as an ambassador because the old king desperately needs the paladin's help or for some delicate trade negotiation. Maybe romance ensues, maybe there's a marriage of state. Job done either way.

How to weave this into a series of adventures:

First off, the PCs need to prove themselves to the old King (or more likely one of his trusted advisors) several times. They then get tasked with escorting the granddaughter to the paladin & his son. The old king gives them the secondary mission of scoping out a possible marriage. The PCs fight a friendly duel (full-on fight until one party is bloodied), establishing their honour to the paladins.

Perhaps the big problem for the PCs is ensuring that any situation does not go beyond plain romance!

 

[Runestar]

Why exactly is the paladin against reunification of the fractured countries under the old king? Are his fears justified (perhaps he believes the old king will be an ineffective ruler, and that he would do a better job), is he mistaken, or is he just power mad (in that he simply wants to be king instead)? Maybe some old grudge that is clouding his judgement?

Easiest way would be to just prove his thinking flat wrong.

 

[NewJeffCT]

My first thought here is that as a paladin, your would-be-ruler is (or at least should IMO) put the needs of the greater good in front of his own. That said, if the PCs can convince him that joining with the original kingdom does just that, then he should be ok with it.

I also want to second the notion of marrying the paladin's son to an heiress of the original kingdom. When talking about the prophecy in question, you use the word "united". That doesn't have to mean your WTL must fall under original kingdom rule does it?

Could your original kingdom not offer the paladin supplies, troops, and assistance in uniting the WTL in return for an alliance to help deal with your hobgoblins?

The uniting of the WTL with the Old Empire does not have to happen, but some sort of unification does. Could it be the unification of the paladin's son & the daughter of the old empire's king? It's certainly possible. ;=)

The paladin is convinced that the people of the WTL would be better off as an independent land, united under his rule. When they were part of the old empire, it was this WTL that bore the brunt of the hobgoblin invasion, and was also bordering on the savage filled jungles to the South of the WTL. So, they often had to deal with not only hobgoblins, but also constant raids from barbarians, lizard folks, yuan-ti, etc, that lived in the jungles. So, if they are going to have to deal with all these threats, why should they also have to pay tribute to the king of the old empire?

 

[NewJeffCT]

Why exactly is the paladin against reunification of the fractured countries under the old king? Are his fears justified (perhaps he believes the old king will be an ineffective ruler, and that he would do a better job), is he mistaken, or is he just power mad (in that he simply wants to be king instead)? Maybe some old grudge that is clouding his judgement?

Easiest way would be to just prove his thinking flat wrong.

As I had mentioned in my previous post, when the hobgoblins invaded, the warriors of the WTL were the ones that bore the brunt of the attack from the hobgoblins... their soldiers were decimated. The king's men also helped considerably, and also suffered significant casualties. However, the other two now independent nations barely suffered scratches - one declared independence when the hobgoblins invaded (nice folks, eh?) and the other one declared soon after the invasion was over - when the warriors of the WTL and the old empire were at their weakest.

So, the paladin believes that since his people are the ones that stand in the way of yet another hobgoblin invasion, and also have to deal with the threat of the savages from the jungle, they should do so as their own nation, rather than having to do that and also pay tribute/taxes back to the king of the old empire and bow to their whims when they might not know what is best for them. ("You want to invade what nation across the ocean? When the hobgoblins are massing on our border?")

The problem for the paladin is that while he may be convinced they can stop the hobgoblin invasion by themselves if they were united under his rule, it is probably not realistic... it took a united WTL, plus many men from the old empire and some dwarves (I forgot them) to barely throw back the last invasion.

 

[Runestar]

Then I suppose the way to go would be to convince the paladin that it is in the best interests of his country to pay fealty to the old king, though it seems his rationale is partly best interests, part indignation and part "he simply doesn't trust the other parties".

Whether or not it really will be for the best .....

 

[NewJeffCT]

Then I suppose the way to go would be to convince the paladin that it is in the best interests of his country to pay fealty to the old king, though it seems his rationale is partly best interests, part indignation and part "he simply doesn't trust the other parties".

Whether or not it really will be for the best .....

Perhaps a commitment from the king of the old empire to have warriors from all over the kingdom protect the borders of the WTL, not just leaving the warriors of the WTL to fend for themselves. (Granted, a commitment like this can be broken by a future king...)

This could be strengthened by the paladin's son marrying into the king's family?

Additionally, I was thinking of having the paladin's son accompany the PCs on a mission as an NPC. If the son eventually realizes the gravity of the PC's epic, save the world quest, he could also put in a word for their mission.

 

[Gilladian]

If part of the problem is that the paladin has an unrealistic grasp of how hard/easy it would be to drive off the next hobgoblin army, maybe what he needs is some "proof" of how difficult it was the first time around.

Speaking with the spirit of the ruler of the day might be a good way of doing that; the PCs could quest to recover the old ruler's skull (lost on an ancient battlefield? buried in a now-forgotten burial mound?) and a powerful-enough and friendly cleric to cast speak with dead...

Or perhaps find a way for the paladin to see/hear some of the key ancient battles, where the dwarves and the extra troops from the Empire turned the tide. Maybe there's an ancient battlefield where a powerful ritual could be cast that would recreate a vision of what occurred there. The PCs could have to research the ritual, find someone powerful enough to cast it, and gather the necessary tools to do so, as well as convince/trick the paladin into being there for the sight.

Once he understands how short-sighted he's being, he may be amenable to a political solution to earlier flaws in his nation's role in the Empire.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Or perhaps find a way for the paladin to see/hear some of the key ancient battles, where the dwarves and the extra troops from the Empire turned the tide. Maybe there's an ancient battlefield where a powerful ritual could be cast that would recreate a vision of what occurred there. The PCs could have to research the ritual, find someone powerful enough to cast it, and gather the necessary tools to do so, as well as convince/trick the paladin into being there for the sight.

Once he understands how short-sighted he's being, he may be amenable to a political solution to earlier flaws in his nation's role in the Empire.

oh, and speaking of powerful/friendly clerics, the group cleric has an NPC sister that is a follower of the same deity (L/G knightly type)... though the group cleric & sister are not on the best of terms.

 

[Quartz]

Here's another suggestion: if the PCs are to help fight off the evil warlord, they're going to need help of their own. Perhaps they're travelling with an ambassador from the old kingdom, who would have his own honour guard - they get involved with the ambassador earlier in his trip when he hires them to do something discreetly for him. Or maybe they stay at the same village / inn when it gets attacked by gnolls / bandits - the ambassador's force doesn't need the PCs' help to defeat the force but he's impressed by their heroism / nobility. Whichever way you swing it, the PCs turn up to the siege with a not-so-small force of highly competent warriors, and it's the combination of the PCs and these warriors that breaks the siege (maybe the ambassador & his warriors make a feint while the PCs go for the leader). Then both sides get to make a good impression and you can take it from there.

Lastly, listen to the players: if they make a good suggestion, let it work.