Wicht I need a ruleing.

[Vanor]

In my fight with Kento at http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2608

I won due to forfit, by the rules the forfit would of happend before there was a green belt, and the fight started some time before there was a green belt.

I think I should be alowed to pick my dojo style, rather then losing the option. So I would like an offical ruling on this. It has been established before that what happens out side a fight, does not effect the out come of said fight...

A fighter who's dojo becomes dishonored, durning a fight he/she is in, does not effect that fighter until after the fight is over. So I feel that I should be able to pick a dojo style.

 

[graydoom]

Well, the precedent for this has to be established sometime.
The essential issue to decide is "Do we use the start of the match or the end of the match as the determining time?"
Personally, I think it should always be the start of the match. The conditions at the end of the match (in terms of the outside world) should be treated as if the matched had ended instantly after starting. Thus, the day the match was started mattter's for the Emperor's tournament, no the day the match ended. And thus, conditions such as what dojos are established should be based upon the conditions that were extant when the fight started.
Thus, at the end of Vanor's match, he gets the choice of path, and chooses things based on the conditions at the start of the fight. In his case, one of those conditions was that no dojos were in existence. Thus, he would be able to choose his Dojo style.

That's my opinion. The ruling here will set a precedent for the future, so please consider it carefully, Wicht.

 

[Wicht]

Basically I agree with GD, the start of a match should be the deciding factor for these kinds of rulings. Which mean any white belts starting a fight after the first dojo has been opened (now) have to join a dojo for the dojo style and those that started their fight before the dojo was openend do not have to.

 

[Left-handed Hummingbird]

Generally, I think the most viable option is the most managable one. I would say it is easier to ascertain the current standing of fighters than to do the same with the standing of the fighters as it were when a fight began.

Specifically, I think a free choice of dojo style is an anomaly that'll only exist in the few first days. The idea behind the rules is clearly that you have to join a dojo to obtain a dojo style. Because there has been no dojo to join the rule has been to let people decide themselves.

However, I would propose that this is just a transitory rule, since the rules does NOT allow a free choice in the event that a player is hindered in joining the existing dojos - either because they have an dishonorable battle record or because the dojo teacher doesn't allow the student to join.

Thus, it really shouldn't be seen as a burden for a character that he or she cannot chose a dojo style without having to join a dojo - on the contrary this is the way it is meant to be and an opportunity to roleplay as well.

 

[Wicht]

Well LHH, in the case of dojo styles, the anomoly as you call it for yellow belts is basically over (though not for new green belts) We will have two dojos at least by tomorrow (either me or Phoenix will have the second).

As for the start or end of the match, I recognize what you are saying about the ease of ascertaining what the conditions are at the end of the fight but IC wise, the start of the fight ruling makes more sense.

 

[Left-handed Hummingbird]

As to the "when should a fight be measured from" consider this example.

No brown belts yet.

1 AM - Fight A begins
2 AM - Fight B begins
3 AM - Fight B ends - with a new green belt
3 AM - Fight C begins with the green belt from B
4 AM - Fight A ends - perhaps with the first brown belt?

If you use the fight-start as your yardstick, the Green belt from fight B would have to wait for fight A to end, because the result could change the Green belts powers and thus make fight C invalid because the powers the fighter thought he had - he in fact hadn't.

Of course the problem presented above is only a problem because of the rule of "free choice of dojo style when no dojos", in the future fighters won't be granted their dojo style right after their ascension to a new tier, but only after they have joined a dojo, thus it doesn't matter if a dojo pops up which in game time is before the fighter chose, but in real time is after, because ...well the fighter just didn't go to that dojo.

It could be fun to chart the history or the chronology of the fights so far. It might upset some people's notions about who was the first this or that. In fact, I'll see if I can't do that right now.

 

[graydoom]

Fight B ends. The Green Belt advances, based on the conditions at the start of the fight. Then the Green Belt starts Fight C, and when he finishes he treats the end conditions as they were at the start. In the meantime, Fight A ends. So what? Green Belt already advanced.

It is only considered the start of the fight for the fighters involved. Dojos and all those things are actually set up at the end of the fight, in real time.

There are no conflicts. The fact that Fight A started before Fight B means it uses the conditions before Fight B for advancement; it does NOT mean that the new dojo or grandmaster's grouping wnet up before Fight B started.

 

[Jin Chi]

I think the start of the match makes the most sense given the play over a period of time nature of the game.

What I don't quite get is the whole Dojo thing in the first place. I've gone through the rules and it isn't clear to me.

Lets say a WB starts a match tonight and achieves their yellow belt. Can they only join a dojo that already exists? Or can they choose any style that doesn't presently have a dojo associated with it?

 

[Jackal]

Well LHH, in the case of dojo styles, the anomoly as you call it for yellow belts is basically over (though not for new green belts) We will have two dojos at least by tomorrow (either me or Phoenix will have the second).

Well that would make Phoenix or Wicht the first to be green belt and Orlandu will be the second to get green belt if we go by the start times of the matches. And what happens to the white belts that go to the honor path that have matchs after the start of yours. Do they have to wait for your fight to be over until they pick a dojo style.?

 

[Sollir Furryfoot]

Dangit, I just noticed now. I didn't intentionally forfeit though, the new limit on the # of people at the boards seems to be horrible, oh well, next time I guess.