D&D 5E Wights and wraiths

[howandwhy99]

So wights and wraiths are naturally made from the remains of really, really evil people and they are created whenever one kills another person. It does sound rather contradictory. What if these were both true, but they were less frequent monsters? We could also make transformations, usually due to everyone dying, less likely even for NPCs. This could result in a suitable and sustainable demographic.

I like how these creatures are consumed by hatred (probably of the living) and the resulting poor impulse control is characterized by a Wisdom penalty. I'd keep this a penalty and allow most other scores to carryover from their originals in life. After all, this appears to be an anti-humanoid effect / magical disease or curse. It usually doesn't work on burrowing moles and badgers or passing birds and cattle.

What if the undead wraith or wight only occurred due to having lost its very soul? What it does to others when it drains them of all life energy? People can sell their souls or have them destroyed, yet live on due to magic for time.

One very important consideration not in D&D for some time is the difference between Permanent Level Loss & Temporary Level Loss. Temporary drains, like a vampire sucking out a victim's blood/life, will heal naturally given enough time. Perhaps weeks, but you will get better. Permanent drains require divine or arcane magical intervention. Like the loss of an arm or eye it won't just grow back without some special power.

Gaining power (not simply hit point healing) does make a lot of sense for level draining enemies. This may be more or less permanent or be temporary depending on the type of creature drained, the type of draining (permanent or temporary), but all should likely diminish in time as that is one of the characteristics of undeath.
EDIT - These creatures will eventually cease to exist, if they don't keep sucking the life out of passersby.

As to spawning new wights or wraiths, only total level loss, something that usually requires their allies ditching them or a TPK, will result in a new level draining undead according to monster type.

All Hit Point loss seems temporary, but permanent would be a big deal. Losing levels is that big deal wrapped in with the loss of the justification for those hit points too. It isn't just losing health, but everything a creature has learned in how to keep itself alive longer in a fight.

Level Draining includes Hit Point loss beyond whatever possible other attack may have caused it, but this additional HP loss is by each victim's Hit Die. Fighters lose 1d10 per level lost. Wizards only 1d4. So a living creatures might (and usually does) have levels left over even when it reaches zero hit points in a fight against wights.

Even if attacks like a wight's claws cause normal damage, it might be a good idea to have all the drain effects require a saving throw. Wraiths, of course, are more deadly then wights. Their only ability to harm is the level drain as they're incorporeal and their icy claws reach into your chest cavity ignoring your steel shield and armor. It doesn't have to deal damage to affect you. This is another reason to put in place saves as a mitigating factor.

Losing levels wasn't so much of a bookkeeping pain as it has been in recent D&D. Cross-referencing perquisites across every ability sucks and wastes a lot of time. It's a lot easier simply going "I can't use anything marked 4th or 5th level on my sheet" and then only for class abilities. Everything else unattributed to class is not affected.

BASIC DESCRIPTIONS
Wights: Twisted humanoids overcome by negative material plane undeath (and perhaps soul-less). They usually reside in bunches depending upon the history of the original wight's success in draining intruders to its realm (perhaps a small, dark and gloomy territory). They are almost always in their lair 70% (one part of the territory) and are only found outside when their is no sunlight. They are harmed by silver or magical attacks, but resistant to normal ones. They are humanoid average intelligence, so likely retain their whatever intelligence they had in life, but this is now cruel and twisted by hate of the living. They have some undead magical resistance, mainly mind affecting and cold-based spells due to not being alive. They are not harmed by poisons or paralyzations either, but susceptible to magical weapons like holy water.

Wraiths: Their packs are not quite as large as wights and they are not usually found in their lairs ~25%. I'd say wraiths are akin to wights, but are incorporeal, so only take 1/2 damage and then only from silver weapons. Magical still do full. They are negative material beings existing upon the Ethereal plane and fully manifested on the Prime Material. They are utterly powerless in sunlight and seek to avoid it. (It may be possible this can destroy them) They have the same magical and weapon resistances as wights. Humanoids drained of all life (levels) by a wraith becomes a wraith (but I would say it's a wight first unless the body is destroyed)

Wraiths are very intelligent, so maybe not every creature can sustain unlife after their body is destroyed? Perhaps they must make a save or something like a system shock roll. They are also a full Hit Die & 1 Ac tougher than wights, so ... are these averages and on average they're tougher due to the resulting averages from those who can make the roll's DC?

 

[The Shadow]

Thus the pretty grid of undeath looks like this:

              animated/  spontaneously    self
              spawned       created      created

war:          skeleton   death knight    lich

duty:         zombie        wight        mummy

hunger:       ghoul         ghast        vampire

vengeance:    shadow       wraith        spectre

Does this really mean anything? Nope. But it kept me busy for about an hour coming up with all of this, so it was time well spent for me. Feel free to tell me how full of crap I am for it.

Actually, that doesn't look half bad. My main bones of contention (pun fully intended!) are the 'war:' row, which you yourself say is shaky, and the idea that vampires are self-created.

Though... Even that could work if vampires don't initially spawn vampires. Maybe they spawn wights or (using your table) ghasts. Or 'Vampire Spawn' to use something a little more D&D-traditional. When a vampire lord dies, some of his spawn die off with him, but the more ambitious can leverage themselves into full vampires. Thus nobody is a true vampire against their will - it always takes a choice.

As for wraiths, I'm still rather taken by the idea that they are deliberately sent back from the afterlife to cause trouble. It distantly maintains the Tolkien connection without being overbearing, and it does distinguish them from spectres and other ghosts.

 

[Hautamaki]

IMO, it's got little to do with harsh vs. forgiving and much to do with ease of play. Tracking fiddly bits such as random -1's and different HP totals and whatnot are a PITA to track over the course of several extended rests. While the intent is to "make it last," the effect is often just to track one more fob that goes away at a slightly different rate than your other fobs. It's not necessarily more forgiving, it's just less annoying.

That's important for newbies and casual players. An annoyance might be all they need to say, "Nope. Not fun."

I don't think it should be excluded (in part because I'd personally like to use those rules!), but I do think it's a dial that you can turn. No effects last past an "extended rest" by default, but if you want to track ongoing energy drain or diseases or curses or whatever, here's the rules (4e's disease rules make a nice starting point, though they might need some work). Slap 'em on your monsters and traps and have fun.

Energy drain can be anything from "extra necrotic damage on a hit" to "reduces your max HP" to "gives you negative levels" to "if you die with them, you become a spawn." Everybody's happy!

I really like 'reduce maximum HP' for energy drain, I'm going with that for now on. Unfortunately it seems I've exped you too many times already though =[

 

[Hautamaki]

Actually, that doesn't look half bad. My main bones of contention (pun fully intended!) are the 'war:' row, which you yourself say is shaky, and the idea that vampires are self-created.

Though... Even that could work if vampires don't initially spawn vampires. Maybe they spawn wights or (using your table) ghasts. Or 'Vampire Spawn' to use something a little more D&D-traditional. When a vampire lord dies, some of his spawn die off with him, but the more ambitious can leverage themselves into full vampires. Thus nobody is a true vampire against their will - it always takes a choice.

As for wraiths, I'm still rather taken by the idea that they are deliberately sent back from the afterlife to cause trouble. It distantly maintains the Tolkien connection without being overbearing, and it does distinguish them from spectres and other ghosts.

Agreed about the Vampire thing though I'd put it simply: normally a person bitten by a vampire dies from blood loss and doesn't come back as a vampire. However a person who willingly sacrifices himself to the vampire's will comes back as a vampire under their creator (who in turn achieves the rank of vampire lord by securing a follower--but if he/she has a lord himself, that lord might not take too kindly to the apparent ambition this development implies!)

 

[DEFCON 1]

Just throwing an idea out there: What if energy drain is only healed by a long rest on consecrated ground (as in a permanent temple)?

It's "stickier" than just a long rest without requiring a cleric and doesn't require a ton of bookkeeping, especially if it just reduces maximum hit points or reduces hit dice until then.

And I think it has pretty good flavor. In Lord of the Rings terms, this is Frodo recuperating in Rivendell after the Ring Wraith attack.

Cheers!
Kinak

I might even go so far as to say that any of the curative spells that remove what would be "disease track" type afflictions-- diseases, energy drains, long-term poisons etc... are actually all rituals, they all have to be accomplished on consecrated ground (like a temple) and they all require more than one holy person to conduct it.

This pretty much guarantees that most groups would not be able to cast Restorations and the like out in the field (thereby making those afflictions little more than speed bumps), and would require them to return to larger settlements (since you'd need two or more clerics or holy men of applicable level to be able to conduct the ritual for recovery.)

*****

I am also not a big fan of the loss of XP/levels due to energy drain... not because I don't think characters should lose levels ever... but because the punishment for the most part targets only a small segment of the party. Energy drain traditionally occurs through melee touch attacks... which means it's your melee warriors who are the ones who are soaking up probably 4/5ths of all energy drains.

To punish one part of the party with a massive loss in XP just because they were the ones who volunteered to be on the front line kinda sucks. They already are the ones who are getting the snot kicked out of them soaking up damage... now we're asking them to lose all their abilities too (while the spellcaster and the archer stand back behind the pillar fresh as a daisy?) That's really not really fair, because there's no suffering on the spellcaster or archer's part. At least when the melee combatants just suffer minuses, it just means that they are prone to dropping unconscious faster in future fights and thus the spillover damage will get aimed at the caster and archer. But when there's a complete loss of potentially multiple character levels? That's like weeks, months or even years of gameplay that gets wiped out that the caster and archer are much, much less likely to ever suffer.

 

[Kinak]

I might even go so far as to say that any of the curative spells that remove what would be "disease track" type afflictions-- diseases, energy drains, long-term poisons etc... are actually all rituals, they all have to be accomplished on consecrated ground (like a temple) and they all require more than one holy person to conduct it.

This pretty much guarantees that most groups would not be able to cast Restorations and the like out in the field (thereby making those afflictions little more than speed bumps), and would require them to return to larger settlements (since you'd need two or more clerics or holy men of applicable level to be able to conduct the ritual for recovery.)

I like this a lot, actually. That said, location-based rituals are kind of my thing, so I'm a bit biased

It's overkill sometimes, but I actually like rituals as skill challenges (or whatever the equivalent is in 5e). Looking to real-world rituals, there's a lot going on there, to the extent that almost anyone could participate. It lets you make religion and healing it's own sort of encounter rather than something that just happens on the battlefield.

I also like how it makes locations important, wears the party down while still being removable after the adventure, and can result in hard choices during the adventure. At the very least, it's a good option for certain conditions (ones like mummy rot and lycanthropy leaping to mind).

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[Libramarian]

Well that was kind of bland and focus group-y for an article about awful undead monsters.

Re energy drain, I like level loss, but it's more appropriate in a 1e game for several reasons. To adapt it to more modern sensibilities without completely destroying the concept, you could allow the afflicted character to gain XP at some multiple until the deficit is erased. E.g. if you get level drained, you get 2 XP per 1 XP until you're back at a par with the other characters.

 

[mlund]

I'm definitely a fan of the "so evil he became undead" monsters spawning lesser undead from their victims, rather than copying themselves. It's more consistent.

I do think there needs to be some sort of penalty from suffering Energy Drain other than just less Max HP. You should be worse on offense and defense when you are drained, and just losing some Max HP doesn't cut it. Disadvantage on everything or the 4E Weakened condition would be overkill. I'm thinking something like a -2 penalty to all attributes while you suffer from one or more Energy Drain effects would be a sufficient enough stigma that players would want to shake it ASAP.

Energy Drain removal needs a dial. I think "everything disappears with an extended rest," or even "everything disappears with a short rest" can be settings on that dial, but not the default setting in CORE. I think "at the end of an extended rest a character removes one Energy Drain effect of the player's choice," would be a good place to default it to.

Personally, I'd want to use a "Remove one per extended rest taken with the benefit for purification effects," setting in any game I played in. I don't care if those effects are alchemy, witchcraft, arcane magic, divine magic, or natural magic. I don't care if the application is active (e.x. rituals) or passive (e.x. being on consecrated ground).

I could totally see the dial going up to settings like, "Must be removed by magic ritual," or "Must be removed by high-level ritual requiring multiple participants," or "Requires burning the offending undead to ashes and using those ashes in a crazy ritual with a druid, the local high priest of pelor, and a halfling Certified Public Accountant."

- Marty Lund

 

[DEFCON 1]

Perhaps a possible idea for Energy Drain is Progressive Disadvantage?

The game is trying to move in a direction where the six ability scores are the engine that drives most of the game. What if each hit of an Energy Drain attack (from a creature that has it) is targeted at one of the PCs six ability scores... and if the PC fails that ability's saving throw... that ability now grants Disadvantage for anything that might be rolled using it? And each subsequent attack is against the next Ability Score on the monster's list, and on a failed save, that attribute now suffers Disadvantage. And this continues until all six Attributes have been drained, at which time the character is dead?

What this gains is that it isn't as painful as having ED cause Disadvantage on everything... there is definitely a stepping process of 6 steps before you are dead... the ED has an actual in-game effect by cause Disadvantage on all future saving throws and checks using that attribute... and what I think is the most useful is that each and every monster can have its own order in which it drains your abilities, emblematic of what the monster is primarily designed to drain.

An Intellect Devourer for example might drain in the order of INT/WIS/CHA/CON/STR/DEX. Whereas a Wraith might drain in the order of CON/STR/CHA/DEX/WIS/INT. A Carrion Crawler (in addition to causing paralyzation) might have a drain in the order of DEX/WIS/STR/INT/CON/CHA.

Now granted, this is slightly more labor intensive in tracking... although for my mind it'd just be like putting a check mark next to each drained Ability Score (so you know that it's currently suffering Disadvantage). But as it is a progressive drain... you get several steps with which you can now create variable recovery time based upon your own preferences. Maybe each Extended Rest allows you to remove the Disadvantage from the lowest rung of your loss ladder. Or maybe it takes a week per ability score to recover each one? Maybe Lesser Restoration allows you to erase one score's Disadvantage while Restoration clears all of them?

The only reason I suggest this is because I am a big proponent in using Advantage and Disadvantage as often as possible in place of situation where you get numeric bonuses and penalties. Because you avoid having to remember the changes in math each and every time something gets hit.

So forget about losing -2 to your STR score when you're hit with a drain. Have it cause all STR checks to roll with Disadvantage. Easier to remember, faster to adjudicate.

 

[The Little Raven]

I'd prefer they make ED an effect like 4e's Disease system. You fight a wraith that gets its claws into you and you suffer from energy drain after the encounter. It can get worse or better, depending on your access to healing magic, being tough, and the like, but it isn't just a "screw the player because their Reflex score was too low" ability.