Wild Shape and Strength drain v3.0

[VictorSim]

Using version 3.0 rules, if a druid gets drained of strength by a shadow (or for other means like poison/disease) and then wildshapes into a bear or some other form then what strength would the creature have?

My ruling was that the bear would have normal bear strength stats because the rules state that you can only wildshape into a typical animal (ie. no extra strong creatures or in this case extra weak). Looking at it another way if a normally 16 strength druid gets drained down to 10 strength and then wildshapes into a 23 strength bear why should that be any different than another normally 10 strength druid wildshaping into a 23 strength bear?

Thoughts?

 

[Dimwhit]

Because you're not changing into a "weaker" form of a bear but rather a bear that has been magically drained of strength.

If a Druid had 6 points of Strength drained and then wildshapes into a bear with a normal 23 Strength, I would rule that the strength would still be drained and the bear form would have a 17 strength until is was restored.

 

[armac]

Perhaps this would get better response in the Rules forum...

Of course, as one of VictorSim's players, I agree with Dimwhit.

Could this be moved to the Rules forum so that our party can
get enough replies to convince the Sim that we are right?

armac

[edit: LOL, while posting this it was moved. Thanks!]

 

[VictorSim]

If the ruling was that stat losses incurred would carry over to the wild-shaped creature then what happens in the case of permanent stat losses?

IE. If a druid permanently loses strength from an attack then would all wild-shaped forms he changed into from then on also suffer an equivalent loss of strength? If so then a significant permanent loss of stats would mean that wild-shaping into a weak creature could be forever forbidden from the druid because he would die immediately upon transforming!

Is the converse also true then? IE. If a druid gets a permanent stat boost by using a wish to gain an inherent stat gain then would all subsequent wild-shape forms be of a higher stat then normal?

Victor

 

[Camarath]

Are we talking about Str damage or a Str penalty? It is my opinion that a penalty would apply to your new Str score but damage would not. You are replacing not modifying your Str score. IMO damage alters your base Str score which is replaced so it would not affect your wild-shaped Str score.

 

[Dakkareth]

Are we talking about Str damage or a Str penalty? It is my opinion that a penalty would apply to your new Str score but damage would not. You are replacing not modifying your Str score. IMO damage alters your base Str score which is replaced so it would not affect your wild-shaped Str score.

Exactly. A damage penality is an on-going magical effect, that affects the bear form just like it did with the druid and will eventually run out.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

This ruling would have the added benefit that you can be sure that a Bear`s Endurance cast on the Druid in his natural form would continue when he changes his shape.

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[VictorSim]

Ok, I'm reasonably convinced that temporary stat drains/boosts should be applied to wildshapes.

Wildshape also recovers hit points as if the druid had rested for the night so should this also not apply to stat losses (ie. a night of rest restores 1 lost stat point in addition to the 1 hp per level)?

 

[Pielorinho]

Shadows, poisons, etc. apply stat damage. Your hit-points aren't reset when you wildshape (although you regain some by wildshaping): any hit-point damage you've taken remains.

Similarly, any stat damage you've taken remains. If you've taken 10 points of strength damage, then when you wildshape, you still have 10 points of strength damage.

If the spell/ability were going to remove the damage, it would say so. It doesn't say so, so it doesn't.

Similarly, stat-enhancement (or penalizing) spells carry over when wildshaping: since the rules don't state anything about them going away, they don't go away. Got a bear's endurance cast on you as a human, giving you a +4 enhancement to CON? When you wildshape into a bear, you still get that +4 enhancement to your (now ursine) CON.

Unless the rules state that an effect/damage/etc. goes away, it doesn't.

Daniel

 

[Pielorinho]

Wildshape also recovers hit points as if the druid had rested for the night so should this also not apply to stat losses (ie. a night of rest restores 1 lost stat point in addition to the 1 hp per level)?

The description of polymorph is a good place to look for answers to such questions :

Upon changing, the subject regains lost hit points as if it had rested for a night (though this healing does not restore temporary ability damage and provide other benefits of resting; and changing back does not heal the subject further).

Daniel