Wild Shape and Strength drain v3.0

[Camarath]

Quoting a sentence fragment out of context=semantic games. Argue honestly and I'll rejoin; continue gameplaying and I won't.

Daniel

I tried to explain my postion and you said.

Okey dokey, Camarath. You're playing semantic games, and I don't do that.

Daniel

I am not playing games. You said things and then failed to explain them. When I try to explain why I view the situation as I do you attacked me and disregarded my entire view point because I used the meaning of words in my argument. If you don't want to discuses this issue that doesn't bother me. But if you’re going to be rude, flippant and make apparently contradictory statements that does bother me.

What in your opinion is the deference between a "base score" and an "ability score"? I do not understand your distinction and can not see what rules you are using to come to this distinction. Here is your whole sentence.

Note that it doesn't change your base score; it is a reduction to an ability score.

What does this sentence mean? Does it mean you reduce you abilty score but your "base score" doesn't change. What do you mean by "base score", base ability score? Are you saying that you reduce you abilty score but your base abilty score doesn't change? Is so then aren't you saying that "a loss or reduction (of your abilty score) does not change the value of the quantity (your abilty score) being lost or reduced"?

 

[hazmat]

Penalties always carry over. If I'm hit by a ray on enfeeblement for 4 then no matter what form I'm in I have a -4 penalty to strength.

Damage is a little different. If I've lost 2 strength and then I transform into a bear my new strength is unaffected by the damage. If I take additional strength damage while I'm a bear the damage will carry over if I transform back to my base form.

The last part is because the damage would also affect my *base* ability score.

Does this make sense?

 

[Pielorinho]

Does this make sense?

It makes sense, but I'm pretty sure it's incorrect.

Ability damage reduces your score. If you get a new score, that score is still reduced by the ability damage. That's all that matters in this debate.

There's a significant difference between CHANGING a score and REDUCING a score, in D&D terms. If you CHANGE a score, the relationship to the original score is meaningless -- when you change a strength score (because of polymorph or something else), nobody cares what the original strength score was.

When you REDUCE a score, however, it's reduced in relation to what the original/normal score was: reduce a strength of ten by two, and you get a very different result from reducing a strength of eighteen by two.

Ability damage is a reduction of your score, no matter what your score is. Turn into a new form, you change your ability score -- but your ability score (whether old or new) is reduced by the ability damage you took.

Do you have a strength of ten, and two points of ability damage? Fine -- your strength of ten is reduced by two, and is now eight. Do you then change into a bear with a strength of 29? Fine, but you didn't get rid of those two points of ability damage (there are specific rules for getting rid of ability damage, and polymorph specifically states that it doesn't get rid of ability damage). You still have those two points of ability damage, and so they reduce your strength of 29 by two, giving you a strength of 27.

That's the key distinction between changing a score and reducing a score: a reduction is in relation to the normal score, whereas a change is a transformation of the normal score to a new normal score.

Daniel

 

[Camarath]

There's a significant difference between CHANGING a score and REDUCING a score, in D&D terms. If you CHANGE a score, the relationship to the original score is meaningless -- when you change a strength score (because of polymorph or something else), nobody cares what the original strength score was.

If you don't mind could you please cit a rule reference stating that ability damage reduces but does not change your ability score.

I think you are confusing the way penalties work with the way damage works. Hit point damage reduces and changes your hit point total. If you were to gain the hit points of a bear, for instance, I think you would gain the bear’s normal hit points regardless of your current hit point total not the bear’s normal hit points minus the difference between your maximum hit points and you current hit points. It is my assertion the ability score damage works in that manner. It reduces and changes your current ability score but not your potential maxium ability score. I do not think the difference between you current and maxium ability score is a penalty that applies to you new ability score.

I could be wrong about this. I have not seen any rules that would make me think a reduction equals a penalty and not a change. But, I might have missed them somewhere.