Wild Shape/Polymorph and Swarm

[Dimwhit]

A question. Can a Druid turn into a rat swarm? In the MM, it's listed as a tiny animal. (We're assuming a high-enough level Druid for changing into tiny animals.)

If so, can he then cast Reduce Animal on himself and become a fine swarm (even though he can't wild shape directly into a fine-sized animal)?

We're trying to figure out if this is doable. The main question is, is a swarm considered a single animal for this purpose?

 

[Corsair]

No, the rat is a tiny animal. The swarm is a swarm OF tiny animals.

 

[pbd]

First, Is this Malazan related? Frikkin' great series. It would be cool to be able to emulate the Diverse, if that is your thinking.

I wouldn't think that wildshaping to a swarm would be overpowered. It may not be explicitly RAW (although a case could be made that it is), but you could probably convince a DM that it wouldn't be broken.

 

[Dimwhit]

It's actually my DM who wants to know for an NPC. He prefers sticking to the RAW, and he also knows that I'll use it for my Druid, too.

I agree that a swarm is more than one rat, however, in every way, swarms are treated as one creature. But I don't know. I think it would be cool, but we can't figure out if it's allowed by the RAW or not.

 

[Corsair]

Swarm Subtype: A swarm is a collection of Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creatures that acts as a single creature.

Emphasis mine.

No, a druid cannot wildshape in multiple creatures, any more than he can wildshape into five badgers, or a wizard can alter self into a five piece halfling brass band.

 

[Nyeshet]

It is a nice idea, however.

Thinking of this, I keep recalling movies and animations where a vampire suddenly dissolves into a swarm of bats, rats, spiders, etc.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Well, there's a neat Swarmshaper template that lets monsters reshape themselves into swarms, but Druids normally cannot do so per RAW.

 

[Dimwhit]

Seems to me that if a Druid can't, than a Wizard can't with Polymorph. I do know, however, that there is a Warlock invocation that allows him to Polymorph into a shadow swarm or something, so there is recent precedence.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Seems to me that if a Druid can't, than a Wizard can't with Polymorph. I do know, however, that there is a Warlock invocation that allows him to Polymorph into a shadow swarm or something, so there is recent precedence.

Of course, remember that the Warlock invocation to become a swarm of bats is a Dark invocation, the Warlock's highest level of power, as opposed to his Polymorph at will curse.

 

[Alzrius]

I know I saw a feat (I think it was a feat) that might have been called "Swarmform" somewhere...in some WotC product...