Wild Shape/Polymorph and Swarm

[Rystil Arden]

I know I saw a feat (I think it was a feat) that might have been called "Swarmform" somewhere...in some WotC product...

Oh, that was the name of the Template. It's a template for monsters (the example was a mummy)

 

[Alzrius]

Oh, that was the name of the Template. It's a template for monsters (the example was a mummy)

I don't mean the Swarm-Shifter template...there was a feat or a spell or something that let you turn yourself into a swarm.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I don't mean the Swarm-Shifter template...there was a feat or a spell or something that let you turn yourself into a swarm.

Hmm...it might have been a spell then, though I could see that as a feat that lets you Wildshape into a Swarm.

 

[Deaths_Fist]

The FR book Underdark has a prestige class (verminlord, I believe) whose 10th-level ability allows one to become swarms of vermin, but the whole class is very confusingly worded and gives few guidelines on which vermin it allows (such as using HD limits on forms as is standard for druids, or purely using size category as a benchmark as the class seems to purport). Even then, which swarm abilities the verminlord gets and which it does not isn't very clear either. If anyone could find some clearer rulings on this class, it'd be ideal for your DM's needs.

 

[Alzrius]

Okay...Dragon #280, page 42, has the Sor/Wiz spell swarm form. There's also, from a Dragon issue about a year old, a feat for taking a swarm familiar. I thought there was a feat that let you polymorph or wildshape into a swarm also, but I'm probably misremembering there.

 

[Saeviomagy]

"For game purposes a swarm is defined as a single creature with a space of 10 feet" - MM, Swarms

"Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type" - PHB, Druid

Seems to me like it's perfectly legit. I doubt anyone could reasonably deny that defining what you can wildshape into is not a game purpose, or that a swarm is, for game purposes, a creature of the animal type.

 

[Dimwhit]

Apparently (I just learned yesterday), the Rules of the Game dealing with Polymorph on the Wizards site expressly prohibits shaping into swarms. For what that's worth. It's good enough for my DM, so it's out.

Probably a good thing. Swarms can be nasty powerful.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Probably a good thing. Swarms can be nasty powerful.

Against players who forget to buy torches maybe. For an 11th level druid it seems like a really bad idea to turn into a bunch of rats.

 

[Perun]

A question. Can a Druid turn into a rat swarm? In the MM, it's listed as a tiny animal. (We're assuming a high-enough level Druid for changing into tiny animals.)

If so, can he then cast Reduce Animal on himself and become a fine swarm (even though he can't wild shape directly into a fine-sized animal)?

We're trying to figure out if this is doable. The main question is, is a swarm considered a single animal for this purpose?

As others have said, it's not possible by the rules. However, I'm going to toot my own horn for a bit, so here's my home-brewed feat:

SWARM SHAPE [General]
You can assume the form of a swarm.
Prerequisites: Wis 19, Wildshape (Tiny) class ability, Knowledge (nature) 13 ranks
Benefits: You can use your wildshape ability to assume form of any swarm composed of Tiny animals. You gain all the traits of the swarm subtype (half damage from slashing or piercing weapons, immunities, etc.). If you're reduced to 0 or less hit points while in the swarm shape, you are immediately forced byck to your natural form.
Special: If you posess the abilty to wildshape into creatures of type other than Animal (and you meet the feat prerequisites), you can then assume shape of swarms consisting of Tiny creatures of those types.

While swarm subtype has some nice benefits, it also has certain drawbacks; for example healing becomes very difficult unless you have mass cure X wounds (or similar) spells available (otherwise you'd be healing a single rat in the swarm, which isn't going to do any good, really), you receive +50% damage from area attacks (meaning every fireball that hits you is automatically considered empowered), and at higher levels you'll do precious little damage to your opponents (swarms usually deal small amounts of damage, but they deal it automatically every round, however you can't cast (greater) magic fang on a swarm, so you'll have only the swarm's natural, non-magical weapons available), etc.

Regards.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Perun--what if she had an already-active spell on herself, such as GMF, before turning to a swarm?