Wild Shape question

[Infiniti2000]

So, to clarify, that text is meant to apply to manufactured attacks, not natural weapon attacks?

Pretty much. I think it's safe to say it applies to anything other than the natural attacks for those particular natural weapons granted by the magical effect.

A character polymorphed or shapechanged into a hydra should get multiple attacks, correct? Including the multiple AOOs and (for shapechange) breath weapons?

The answer is yes, but keep in mind that there is debate about whether a hydra gets multiple attacks on a single AoO. I'm not sure if that's what you meant, but if you have a question about it, perhaps another thread is in order (not sure if any other threads on ENWorld are in existence on this topic).

 

[Snapdragyn]

OK, I'm with you now, thanks. I was aware of the 'natural weapons' line in alter self, but was reading that as being a seperate issue from using those natural weapons in the attack sequence of the form.

Next question: Since I retain my own BAB, does that mean that I use my BAB + STR mod - size mod as the creature's BAB for its primary attack(s) & modify accordingly from there for seconary attack(s) (keeping in mind that I won't have Multiattack; no room for it on my feat selection anyway & easier to just avoid the issue with a DM who's probably going to freak over this build anyway)?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Next question: Since I retain my own BAB, does that mean that I use my BAB + STR mod - size mod as the creature's BAB for its primary attack(s) & modify accordingly from there for seconary attack(s) (keeping in mind that I won't have Multiattack; no room for it on my feat selection anyway & easier to just avoid the issue with a DM who's probably going to freak over this build anyway)?

Yes - mostly.

You keep your own BAB, and you use the creature's Strength mod and size mod as your AB (not BAB) on your primary natural attack, and the creature's Strength mod as your bonus to damage. Your secondary natural attacks have a -5 penalty to their AB, and only apply 1/2 of your new Strength mod to damage.

 

[Pielorinho]

A character polymorphed or shapechanged into a hydra should get multiple attacks, correct? Including the multiple AOOs and (for shapechange) breath weapons?

One of the most grotesque combos I ever saw was a high-level monk polymorphed into a giant octopus. I was an unhappy DM.

Daniel

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Why was that so bad, Pielorinho? It shouldn't have been all that much worse than a high-level fighter polymorphed into a giant octopus ...

 

[Pielorinho]

Why was that so bad, Pielorinho? It shouldn't have been all that much worse than a high-level fighter polymorphed into a giant octopus ...

Increased monk damage, I think, plus having all his feats work well with this form, plus increased speed, plus increased AC. Basically, monks fight well naked, unlike fighters.

Consider a 12th-level monk, getting 9 attacks at full base attack (+13 +any bonuses for feats, spells, etc.) for 2d6+5+any feats/spells, being able to stun, with an AC of 20+wisdom modifier+any spells (monks should always get a mage armor), a movement rate on land of 60, and improved trip with a +9 on the opposed check. 10' reach. Nasty stuff.

Daniel

 

[Infiniti2000]

A giant octopus does only 1d4 damage per tentacle.