D&D General Wildly Diverse "Circus Troupe" Adventuring Parties

[Hussar]

I am a player in his games (have been for a bit less than two years now!) I have tried to keep my choices relatively constrained. We brought in a new player who did want something from outside FR for an FR adventure, but given it's already got an interplanar bent (Out of the Abyss), it didn't seem like the weirdest thing, generally speaking.

I've also tried to abide by his requests for limiting certain actions. I had, unfortunately, not realized that flaming sphere is actually a bit of a flaming PITA to run in Fantasy Grounds, otherwise I would not have relied on it so with my previous character. But in general I try to pick options that are effective, relatively low overhead, and thematic, and I avoided the specific spells he asked me to avoid.

Heh. The flaming sphere thing is actually pretty easy because it's not a monster. Which is why I adore the new 2024 summoning spells. SOOOO much easier to run.

But, that's the point. You're coming in at the tail end of all of this. Phandelver, other than "please be something from Forgotten Realms" had pretty much no restrictions. Out of the Abyss had even less. And, case in point, new player comes, what's the very first character created? One that has absolutely no ties to Forgotten Realms. It's hardly a new thing.

And,

You know, it's funny I've never heard about these entitled snowflake players until maybe the last few years and almost always in the context of this board. I'm not disputing anyone's lived experience, but I seriously question if it's as endemic as the Internet would have you believe.

Really? This has been a common complaint for years. I remember back many years ago listening to the Fear the Boot podcast and them talking about how players never bother with the DM's setting. Trying to get players to actually pay attention to the setting? That's not new. Heck, you want a good example, watch the Viva La Dirt League actual play Tales of Azerim and you'll see exactly the same thing going on.

I actually had a player take a level in cleric after about 6 or 7 levels into the campaign, when asked what deity his cleric was following, quite honestly ask, "What setting are we playing in?"

This is not new.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

This is not new.

It’s also not wrong. Gygax wasn’t into settings, which is why he really struggled when players started asking about the setting for his home game. His first attempt at writing a publishable setting was more suited to a wargame than an rpg.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Are there ways I can frame things in my mind to make it easier to get on with?

One thing to consider is that reading has declined significantly, especially amongst men and boys. So most D&D players aren’t learning their fantasy tropes from literature any more, they are learning them from video games.

 

[Hussar]

It’s also not wrong. Gygax wasn’t into settings, which is why he really struggled when players started asking about the setting for his home game. His first attempt at writing a publishable setting was more suited to a wargame than an rpg.

I'm really not following how right or wrong enters into this? We're talking about play preferences. Are you saying my play preferences are wrong?

And, in case anyone thinks I'm ragging on my current crop of players, that's very much not true. I remember back in the early 2000's, running a Scarred Lands campaign. Now, in Scarred Lands, elves have a very specific history. Their god is dead. Their god was murdered by a Titan in front of thousands of witnesses. That's the whole schtick for elves in Scarred Lands is that they no longer have a god and they are now the last generation. After the current generation of elves die, they go extinct. It's very much a thing in Scarred Lands.

So, I have a player who plays an elven barbarian. Bit weird given the description of elves in Scarred Lands, but, fair enough, I can work with this. Then, a few levels in, he declares he wants to take some PrC from Book of Exalted Deeds - something something of Gwynherwif (and I KNOW I didn't spell that right). Basically a holy barbarian whose rage is granted by a god.

I point out that this PrC very much does not fit in Scarred Lands. Player insists he wants to play it. I point out that this is directly contrary to everything in the setting. Player insists he wants to play it. Mind you, this isn't session 0. This is several levels into the campaign - it's a PrC, we've been playing this campaign for several months by this time and this is the first he's brought it up.

He continues to bitch and complain about how he can't get this PrC until I finally cave because I just really can't be asked to fight about it anymore.

This is my usual experience as a DM in pretty much every single campaign I've ever run since 1e. So, yeah, now? I just shrug and ignore it. I don't care anymore. Settings are disposable. If the players aren't going to invest fifteen minutes into the setting, why should I?

 

[Hussar]

And, just as a point, here's a thread from 2006, talking about exactly this:

Thread 'Grounding Players in a Setting'

Aug 23, 2006

A problem that has plagued me throughout my DMing career is how to get the players to care about the setting. Whether homebrew or published, I've never really been able to get the players to sink their teeth into whatever setting I'm using. Most players have their own agendas for the game or are simply content to let the game move them forward. It's rare that a player really cares about the environment that he finds himself in.

And, to be fair, I'm every bit as guilty of this. When handed a ten page history of the DM's campaign, my eyes glaze over and, honestly, I don't usually bother...

• Hussar
• Replies: 53
• Forum: *TTRPGs General

 

[DEFCON 1]

I think an important distinction here to find out about would be whether it is playing online with strangers that causes more DMs to have players showing up not having read or concerned themselves with the campaign themes and instead arriving with a full-formed PC at the go?

The thing about online games that don't involve personal friends is that there's much more of a time crunch on behalf of players. DMs that are preparing a game on FG or Roll20 or Foundry can take as long as they need to set everything up for their campaign idea and establish their parameters. But as soon as they hit 'Post' to start looking for players... the players who log in looking for games know there's only a short window to get themselves into the mix for that particular game before the window closes and there are too many applications submitted. So they are incentivized to just hit 'Yes' as quickly as possible because otherwise they don't get to game.

But what that means is that there's a better chance of these players not reading anything about the game itself because they just want to get their submission for playing in so they don't miss it. And if those particular players just happen to have a character already made that they've been looking to play... if they are accepted into the game, it probably just becomes a "Well, it doesn't hurt to ask!" situation. They just offer their preferred character to the DM even though it might have little to do with the campaign theme, and then the DM has to decide whether or not to say no. And that's when the conflict might come in... with players wanting to play these characters they have in mind and scared about being dumped out of the game itself (since who knows how long it's taken them to get accepted into a game at this point), so they try and argue to convince the DM to let them play their character idea... and the DM fights back because the player didn't spend the time taking what at first glance seemed to be a completely simple request-- read the campaign info to make sure this was actually a game you wanted to play.

And here's the thing... we all know that our online presences are more annoying and more combative than we'd ever actually be in face-to-face real life-- even places like here on EN World. So what might have been a reasonable conversation between the DM and the player or two around a table can become more contentious when its annonymous and online. Which is part of the reason I personally don't really ever want to play online, as I prefer to play with people whom I know and for whom I can have actual conversations with to work out any issues without them blowing up.

I could be wrong about this theory of mine, but at least to me it seems a plausible possibility as to why it happens.

 

[DammitVictor]

Hold on a moment. You’re now painting yourself as the victim, but this is what you originally wrote:

I'd like to point out that I'm not being the best version of myself right now, I'm not in the habit of insulting people when I'm trying to convince them to agree with me or do them a favor. This is how I behave when I'm being made fun of by people for not agreeing with their stupid and/or arbitrarily selfish and insonsiderate opinions.I'm trying to do less like this in my day-to-day life, but this happens a lot and I don't have grreat coping mechanisms for accepting that 99% of people are below average.

I'd also like to point out that I'm not trying to paint myself as a victim here. I'm making fun of them for being unable to address the concept with anything but ridiculously misplaced moral outrage. If I ever need sympathy, I'm not going to look for it here... even if I'm trying to get better at offering it to other people.

If you don't think the problem exists, congratulations on not encountering it yourself. Just keep doing what you're doing, I guess.

 

[TiQuinn]

I assume that when the DM isn't interested in my character backstory, it's because they have zero interest in incorporating my character into their world and would rather I make the sacrifice to fit their vision than vice versa. Which is fine, I just default to the tropiest possible character idea (edgelord orphan rogue, horny bard, self-righteous paladin, hippy stoner druid) and let the hilarity flow from there. If the DM gives zero fs about my character's role in the world, why should I?

Agreed. I think that’s fine if that’s the game. I’m going to put in effort where the effort is needed. Want me to discover my character at the table? Death awaits my PC around every corner?

Yep, you’re getting Bob the Fighter. Eric the Cleric. Yeoman the Bowman. Melf the Elf.