Wildshape, Polymorph and Multiple Attacks...

[Rashak Mani]

In one campaign a Monk has a magic item that allows him to polymorph. He polys into a Girallon and proceeds to do 4 claws and 1 bite attack (full round attack of course).

Another case is with a Druid that wildshapes and has the Multi Attack feat (Masters of the Wild). He transforms into a tiger and does his 3 attacks (or 5 attacks when pouncing).


I might still be stuck in 3.0 and mixing it with 3.5 stuff... but I thought poly/wildshaped PCs didn't get more attacks than their BAB allows for. What are the rules concerning this for 3.5 ? Is the Girallon being played wrong ? The Druid ?

 

[Dthamilaye]

I would like to know this too...

 

[Darklone]

When reading the spell I was a little bit confused about this... one the one hand it reads, you don't get more attacks with more appendages, on the other hand it says you get special attack routines.

So IIRC
A) No additional attacks for the two extra arms
B) Specials like Pounce, Rend and other stuff works.

 

[Rashak Mani]

So IIRC
A) No additional attacks for the two extra arms
B) Specials like Pounce, Rend and other stuff works.

Seems reasonable... I'd rather have an "official" clear up on this. After all I thought 3.5 was a 3.0 "errata", but these bugs still show up.

 

[Stalker0]

As far as I know you get two choices:

1) You get tje creatures attack routine, nothing more, nothing less.
2) You get your number of attacks based on your BAB, but you can use what appendages you want.

 

[jgsugden]

When in a form that uses natural attacks, you (generally) use the natural attack rules. Primary attacks are at full BAB, secondary attacks are at BAB - 5 and you deal damage according to the natural weapon's normal damage (ie; you don't use monk damage). Multiattack lowers the secondary penalties to -2 instead of -5. These natural attacks follow the normal rules for natural attacks ... secondary attacks are treated as off hand attacks (for strength damage / PA purposes) and primary attacks are treated as either one handed or two handed attacks depending upon whether it is the only attack or not.

Some forms (lizard man, troglodyte, etc ...) can mix natural and manufactured weapons. In this case, the manufactured weapon attacks using the normal rules for fighting with a weapon (attack at BAB, BAB - 5, BAB - 10, etc ...) and any available natural attacks may also attack as secondary attacks. In these instances, available natural attacks that could normally be used as a primary attack may only be used as a secondary attack. This will reduce the attack roll (by 5 if the creature doesn't have multiattack or by 2 if it does) and reduce bonus damage due to strength (down to 1/2 the strength bonus). It is unclear if mixing natural attacks in with a two handed manufactured weapon attack reduces the effectiveness of the two handed weapon so that it is treated as a one handed weapon (I've received conflicting answers from custserv).

A monk in a form with natural attacks may make use of his monk abilities, but deals damage according to his monk abilities (modified for size), not according to his form's natural attack damage. In other words, a 10th level monk in a large form deals 2d8 damage per strike (with three attacks at BAB 7/7/2) when attacking as a monk, regardless of the natural weapons of that form ... though it may also mix in natural attacks as mentioned above.

These rules are found in the intro to the monster manual, though they are nto very clearly spelled out. I have repeatedly worked with various custserv agents to try to get them clarified.

 

[Dthamilaye]

This is IMC IMC IMC (Ie, im not sure if this correct, but I use it):

The amount of attacks you have in your normal form is the maximum number of attacks you can do in any other form.

Ie, if you have bab 16+ and you change to form with natural weapons, you get those 4 attacks with any of the appendages, but no more. (if the new form has so many attacks to start with)
If you TWF, and you can use your weapons in the new form, you get as many attacks as before with your weapons.

If you TWF and change to form with natural weapons with bab 16, you get 4 attacks.(if the new form has so many attacks to start with)

If your natural form is something that has natural weapons AND can use manufactured weapons, then you might get additional bite or such.

Ie, half-dragons can do normal attack routine with manufactured weapons + one bite attack with -5 to hit and half STR damage. This does not change anything in the routine of manufactured weapons.
This Half-dragon in other form with natural weapons with 16 bab could do 5 attacks maximum (if the new form has so many attacks to start with).

I base this all to the Alter Self clause that you never get more attacks than in your normal form.